To be stressed by climate change

Well you can’t have it both ways!

The reason we import things from China and other countries and don’t make them ourselves is because of the cost of labour.
It’s not all junk and rubbish either. My iPhone was mainly made in China.
Yes, China’s emissions are our emissions.

If we could only buy British made things, most people wouldn’t pay for them.
Remember Mary Portas’ knicker factory? I think they cost £10 a pair which many people would regard as too expensive.

I heard it too! Yes we really need to stop importing so much rubbish from China, our shops are full of imported junk, maybe we need another ‘I’m backing Britain ‘ campaign

Just heard an interesting point of view on "Any Answers" on the radio. A woman was saying that China's emissions are in a way our own emissions because so many of our goods are manufactured in China.

I hadn't thought of that before, so maybe we have more influence on China than we thought we had, and could help to reduce their emissions.

Neals Yard is a company which markets to middle class people with plenty of money. I can afford it if I want to buy it, as can Anja, but there are many more who cannot afford it, including many Gransnetters, judging by comments I have read on this site. We can discuss ‘healthier’ choices which help to prevent global warming till the cows come home, but people will not buy into them if the cost is too high. Four bars of soap for a £1 are what many people will buy, complete with palm oil, because the price is affordable for them.

One child per couple would make for some lonely children.

Well said Winterwhite.

Not sneering Apricity, stating the truth! Neals Yard soap is prohibitively expensive for the majority of people in this country. Virtue signalling by claiming to use a palm oil free soap is fine if you can afford it. Most people can’t, and given the amount of threads/comments on Gransnet, read I might add, by a large number of well educated and middle class older people, who in many cases show by their comments their belief that large numbers of people in Britain are suffering poverty, it seems somewhat presumptuous to invite others to try Neals Yard soap, even at the reduced price of £6.50 per bar.

Exactly Winterwhite ....and probably what most sensible people think too.

Winterwhite
You paint the picture of a society I would very much like to live in, sadly I don’t think it will happen in my lifetime, if ever!
We definitely need to question our actions a lot more, do we need this? Can this be repaired rather than replaced? How many air Miles does it take to get certain produce on our tables? Do I need to make this journey?
I totally support the right to protest, but not to cause chaos and disruption to thousands of people

well get rid of the plastic .nearly all my groceries come in bottles or jars ,ok you pay a bit more for a bottle of ketchup.i get almond milk in cartons ,yes i know cartons have plastic coating...gone back to butter in foil. its amazing that you can get items in cardboard if you look ,like washing powder. bleach i get the cheapest plastic bottle and make it last for months.. i usually use it to get stains out.walk more use the car less .i dont have a car. so i walk to the main road and get on an electric bus..instead of a fuel guzzling one.....dont use spray .cut a lemon up and put it in each room or an orange....vanilla pods are good too.recycle where you can.....think two children per family/parent...not lots so you expect the state to keep the children.get the food companies to change their plastic for other wrappings.

Eglanitne2 Not quite true. The earth's population is predicted to peak around 2060 although there is another study that is saying it will peak about 2040. China is actively encouraging families to have more than one child, I believe without a huge amount of success, and I think as the rest of the developing world becomes more affluent then the number of children in families will naturally drop. You just have to look at the population of the UK. The number of children being produced will not allow the pensions to be paid at the ages they were in previous generations, unfortunately. For example, I look at my own family, I have 4 children, and they have only replaced themselves at best and one of my sons has no children and has no intention of having any.

MamaCaz I think you are right about economics based on growth - that is one of the reasons that those in power drag their heels over change. We are a wasteful society with, for example, some clothes so cheap that people wear something once then bin it. (But that gives work to women in poor countries). The fact is, our economic system is unsustainable, it is like a house of cards and when one goes they might all follow. It is hard to see how anything can be done short of wiping the slate clean and starting again which obviously is not possible. Probably only a really major upheavel that would put everything into perspective and unite every country in response to it, will put us back on a proper footing. Maybe a threat from outer space, plague, aliens, yellowstone, who knows?
Meanwhile it is pointless to live in fear and worry, we can all do our bit if only as an example to others of how to change. Yes there may be a disaster round the corner, but there is already disaster at home with escalating knife crime, and many other ills of society to address.If we do our best to improve the values of our society, in our homes, family, local organisations etc, hopefully it will spread outwards and at least give the next generations the tools they will need to recover from the ruins of whatever disasters may strike. Depending on where you live, they are happening already.

Agree with those arguing that the most and the least we can do is our individual best in our own lives.
For young activists that could include a determination never to learn to drive and to live car-free lives. Many must be of an age where that could be a real life-style choice. Just think how that could affect life for all of us as the years go by and we have a car-free adult society - gradual return of the high street, reopening of train lines. Reduced dangers of pollution for young children. And not dependent on success on anything other countries do.
The almost mass hysteria that is being generated by what some call eco-terrorism has moved up quite a notch this weekend. No, however worthy you think your cause I don't think you have the right to disrupt the everyday lives of thousands of other people. The haughty disdain for others underpinning these protests is unpleasant.

"Why the world population won’t exceed 11 billion" - a brilliant talk by the late Hans Rosling

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LyzBoHo5EI

The key is improvements to child health. Most parents who are confident that their children will grow up and thrive no longer have large families.

Talk up thread of one child per couple got me thinking.

I'm not an economist, so I could be wrong, but I have the impression that the economies of the developed world are currently based on the need for permanent growth.
If this is correct, it's hard to imagine what would happen if the world population actually began to fall, instead of increase.
Even on a small scale, for example just the UK, the short-term effects could be catastrophic couldn't they? We already have an aging population, which is causing huge problems. If the number of younger people was to suddenly fall dramatically (either through falling births, or the loss of young, tax-paying immigrants), the effects don't bear thinking about!

This doesn't alter the fact that the world's population does need to be addressed, or that I don't think we should do anything about it - simply that there is probably no simple solution that won't impact on the existing population i.e. us.

I feel increasingly concerned (rather than stressed) when I think about where we are at, and do what I can in my own little way to limit the harm that I do to our planet, but I think it will take a whole lot more than some of us doing that, to keep our planet inhabitable.

IMO, only big, global measures can do anything to stop, or better still reverse, the rot. For that reason, I support what the protesters are doing to draw attention to the issue (though obviously I feel sorry for those affected by it). It will take drastic measures to bring about effective change.

Of course Sophiesox is right! But how are the deniers to understand and "do --- own small bit" without the inconvenience of large demos to bring the urgency home to them?

Spot on Lilyflower ??

Wise words sophiesox

There is absolutely no point in worrying. There are no benefits whatsoever. Worrying is entirely negative, causes stress and raises blood pressure, sometimes to dangerous levels. Being concerned about something and doing something positive is entirely different. Whenever I hear yet another lazy journalist asking an interviewee, “should we be worried...... ?” I find myself shouting at the television (thereby raising my own blood pressure!). Like some posters have pointed out, if we all try to live sustainably, do our own small bit, the big picture will change.

First of all the bars of soap I buy at Neal’s Yard are £6.50 in their shops so let’s get our facts straight
Still way out of the reach of most people, especially those with a family.

It's interesting that people are sneered at for buying cheap products, using shops like Primark on some threads without any thought for the majority who are struggling to bring up families on often extremely limited budgets.

It's the companies that need to be targeted, not the majority of consumers who cannot afford eco products which are generally more expensive.

The demonstration would have held more gravitas if Emma Thompson hadn't jetted in from the other side of the world and if the organisers did not get into their gas guzzlers and drive back to the Cotswolds.
A great deal of virtue signalling going on while the rest of us just quietly get on with it.
Soaps, that appear expensive, are priced because they are often hand made from quality products. They do seem to last longer than the bog standard ones.

I am the teeniest bit sceptical about the throway claim from every extinction rebellion spokesperson who claims that 97% of scientists believe that climate change is man made.
So who are the 97%? I googled it and found very contradictory answers. I see the evidence of plastics defiling our oceans and killing wildlife and I will always support efforts to reduce our global footprint but will take no preaching by celebrities who fly worldwide and live a life so different from the average. And I want the London demonstration gone so people who have to work can go about their business. We have got your message so now go!

We should all be worried but There's a limit to how many worries we can have at any one time.
My old nana used to say she had a worry a week.
The climate protests are necessary and important to wake people up to the crisis.
Marching and shouting are no longer my way of protesting but I can and should do other things and hopefully set an example to others that you can enjoy a holiday that doesn't include flying or driving. That you still can shop in independent shops and not use the giant supermarkets all the time and grow our own veg and flowers.
Life is a balance though and who wants to be a spoilsport.

We should all move here:
(from an article in the NYT)

Mother Nature’s Got Nothing On Duluth: A Harvard University climate adaptation expert provides reasons why people in the future should consider moving to Duluth, Minnesota, “the most climate-proof city in America,” to escape the inevitable extreme heat and rising sea levels that will make places like Miami, Florida and New Orleans, Louisiana uninhabitable. Even with global warming the region around the Great Lakes will remain relatively cool. By 2080, even with somewhat high concentrations of carbon dioxide emissions, Duluth’s climate is expected to shift to something like that of Toledo, Ohio, with summer highs maxing out in the mid-80s Fahrenheit. Cooler temperatures mean a reduced risk of wildfires compared to the West and Southwest. And being inland means it’s mostly protected from the effects of sea level rise. Overall, considering Duluth’s cold temperatures, abundance of fresh water from Lake Superior, and industrial infrastructure, it’s the ideal climate refuge.

Blimey who on earth could afford to pay £8-£9 for a bar of soap? I would expect to cook 2-3 midweek meals for that !