This "pro women" thing?

My sentiments exactly, Phoenix. I’m getting to the stage where I think ‘I would rather hear a man reading the news, etc’, and Radio 2 is now ‘overrun ‘ with women presenters.

I have 2 daughters and a son. Eldest daughter went into a major company after graduation and stayed there for several years, then discovered she was being paid less than her male counterparts. She left and has learnt that life isn’t necessarily fair, but at least now she’s properly paid for the work she does. I think people forget that a working woman puts in the same amount of effort as a man and should be paid the same.
I stopped listening to WH ages ago. I think they make women sound whingeing children!

I'm basically in agreement with you all on this too.

I even go as far as to question whether all lines of work can be done equally well by both sexes, or whether there are some jobs and some positions that are best held by men and others that should be the province of women.

I've never really be able to reconcile myself to the thought of male midwives. I sometimes wonder too if there are not fewer women than men who are ruthless enough to head really big firms.

I think until childcare and housekeeping are shared equally between cohabiting men and women, there will always be more men than woman in top jobs.

Who gets funding for this that or the other should depend on whose project is best, but in all the fields where there are fewer woman than men, it is still difficult to be taken seriously as a woman.

Sorry only read the OP.

Good luck with that Phoenix, not a chance. Think of a grant application for anything even vaguely public. If you are a healthy, straight, white male you will read the first paragraph and not bother to apply. I'll stop before I say so much more.

A supermarket near me took on a young man with a mild learning disability who usually worked at the check out counter, serving people when they took their shopping to him. My daughter and son-in-law were staying with us and went shopping, and took their purchases to the young man. Apparently he was rude to them in some way (can't remember the details as it was about 6 years ago.)
I used to go shopping with my husband and we often encountered the young man, who was very chatty and friendly to us. Then my husband suffered a stroke and went into hospital, where he stayed for months. The young man always asked me in a friendly way how he was,
One day he actually came up to me while I was shopping and said "How's your husband? Is he dead yet?"
I went out of my way to avoid him after that, especially after my husband died. .
I believe that in the end the supermarket had to let him go, as they had a lot of complaints.

throughout this country I meant to say

Johno I don't know what man-hating feminism you refer to but I am not aware of these sorts of attitudes being widespread - of, for instance, women making men's lives a misery by calling them lewd names, subjecting them to lewd behaviour, threatening to rape/kill them if they express an opinion, etc, etc. That sort of behaviour - and the mysoginistic attitudes that underly it - is experienced every day by all sorts of women throughout the world, and indeed globally.

Your reasoning that "if you are good enough, you will get the job" means, in effect, that those groups of people, such as women and non-white people, who are not represented in senior positions are naturally inferior. I don't believe that's true.

No one absolutely no one is saying that we can all do the same work and btw there is no positive discrimination in this country, it’s illegal. Equality is not about us all being the same - why can’t people get that simple fact? Colour blind men cannot do a whole range of jobs and that’s quite fair as long as differentiating between colours is a necessary part of the job.

Regarding the sports commentators, the women Sky football pundits are excellent, and try to avoid the cliches we're used to. After watching live TV football for almost 30yrs, I'm slowly getting used to it.
As for using the wrong terminology - what? No way.
That they're all attractive? That the patriarchy for you. When do we get old, unattractive female newsreaders btw, 40yrs after Angela Rippon? Some of the male newsreaders clearly aren't chosen for their looks.

There are so many facets to equality; I can see how bitterly unfair it is for a woman to be excluded from consideration in certain employment because of potential pregnancies. I have also been employed where one woman had three children over the space of eight years and did
nothing for the budget of the small organisation. I have a relative who is a firefighter - he has expressed real concern for the safety and the ability of two women now employed on his watch who could not lift a man in a rescue situation - but any discrimination, even at the time of call out for a fire, is not allowed. Being of 'a certain age' I remember only too well the culture of passing over women for certain roles - not physical - and of listening to stupid remarks about women bus and lorry drivers. We are different, usually physically less strong, but strident insistence that everyone can do the same work is just not true, and surely positive discrimination doesn't help anyone - it must breed resentment.

With you Siobhan
As a teacher I was always horrified by the words 'But women don't do that', coming from boys or girls (or staff!). Until we have half the MPs female - that's where the power starts - with roughly the proportion of ethnic MPs that represent the country, there is no equality. White men holding the power teaches all our schoolchildren that white men are in some way superior.
Equality isn't what is happening this minute, it's about past experience too. E.g.s
How many families of our generation moved area/house for the wife's promotion, how many for the husband's. Are they equal? No. So it's not surprising that women don't get comparable pay/pension to men's.
When surveyed, men's commute tended to be straight to work, straight home. Women's tended to be come home via picking the kids up (unless they had a lovely gran to do it!) and doing a bit of household shopping.
Our granddaughters deserve better, getting on for half a century after the Equal Opportunity Act
This is balanced out by someone on the radio saying it would be nice if a woman go it. Thank you to whoever said it, they may have opened a few kids eyes up, that women can direct films.
And thanks to whoever poster about Simon Mayo, they've introduced me to Scale Radio on my TV and tablet. Simon's on now.

Women’s right - have we gone to far? Hahahahaha and the best example you can give relates to sports commentators? Hahahahaha. Speechless absolutely speechless at such misogyny. ?????????????????

Meant preening- not- not preening! I type too fast when I am cross.

Oh I do so agree!
One of my WIs is just starting a discussion group & my first topic is going to be-' Women's 'Rights' - Have we gone too far?
I get so fed up of watching the rugby on TV & seeing a blonde female doing all the pre & after match talks etc. I'd rather hear from someone who knows what it is like to be on the pitch not an over made-up -sorry but only word is 'Bimbo'- pretending to know what she is talking about & not preening to the camera. Don't watch football so no idea of that is the same.
The best person for the job without a doubt & if that IS a woman then Hooray!

Indeed it does still happen paddyann and more insidious discrimination has not gone away either. Misogyny is alive and not only well, but thriving.
Just reading some of the posts here reinforces that, plus that women are our own worst enemies sometimes.
It's hard to eradicate innate sexism if that's the way we were brought up but the matter remains that women remain at a disadvantage in many ways. And the fact that we've had two women prime ministers (against hundreds of men) does not change that.
Why shouldn't we try to level the playing field for women, the disabled, ethnic minorities and gay people to make it fairer for them?
Men in positions of power still tend to appoint and promote people like themselves. Why not make them at least think about what they are doing and why?
And before you decry Womens' Hour it had an interesting piece today on how current austerity and government cuts, impact women far more than anyone else. We should all be aware of that.
I am proud to be a feminist but I certainly don't hate men, I even have a few of my own I'm quite fond of.
Men who squeal about man-haters just sound pathetic and scared; plenty of women hate the patriarchal system and are campaigning against it so that women can advance by our own efforts without societal hindrance.
But I've never seen any actual hatred towards actual men -- despite much whinging by men feeling threatened by 'uppity women' who need to be put back in their place.
Ain't gonna happen, buddy.

Wanting things to be more equal is not favouring women ( or disabled people or bame people) but is about wanting to attempt to address centuries of structural inequalities imposed by those with power ( often male, white and physically able).

Saw a news item on our local t.v. news saying that 30% of businesses take on less women of child bearing age because they might need to go on maternity leave! If only men could bear children then we would have greater equality!

I don't see how wanting total equality makes anyone a feminist. That word immediately strikes me as favoring femininity. I'd say I'm a peoplist but then I remember I like animals to be treated well also. Maybe I am a fairist.

Sodapop there was a young woman on TV news just yesterday who was sacked from her job in a childrens charity ...just the day after she told her boss she was pregnant .It still happens .She's taking him to court.

However realism tells me I would hate a job which involved the telephone. I would not expect any sane person to give me a job in a call centre. However when I worked with disabled children in a boarding school. Everything was done to make them 'normal but really encumbered them with cumbersome arms of legs which they hated . We will never be the same nor should we be. I will never be hearing.

I'm fed up with the 'women quota'
It's happening more and more in tv and radio, and not necessarily for the better.
Look at how the BBC mucked up Simon Mayo's perfectly enjoyable Drivetime programme by bringing in Jo Whiley who was already presenting her own great early evening programme. And got rid of the lovely Matt Williams, whose sense of humour made my day, every day.
It didn't work, Jo is now back to her evening programme, Simon has decamped to a remote, hard to find channel and Matt has just disappeared. The programme is now hosted by Sarah Cox. Nothing against her, she's great, but not on Drivetime. Can't listen any more.
Now, they've done the same on late night Radio5Live's Phil Williams and replaced him with Sarah Brett who seems to spend the time giggling with her girlfriends. The whole character if the programme has changed and I hate it.
Woman's Hour? Last listened about ten years ago.

“Quite right to reward the best person. However I think one Lady has done a lot of harm to the women's movement by her lies and stubborn stance in Parliament. Does she ever think of any one else?”

Are you thinking of Thatcher or Merkle or May!

Quite right to reward the best person. However I think one Lady has done a lot of harm to the women's movement by her lies and stubborn stance in Parliament. Does she ever think of any one else?

www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/24/maternity-leave-discrimination-54000-women-lose-jobs-each-year-ehrc-report

Did you mean this type of too far? The figures are a few years old but things have certainly not got any better.

Oh good. It's not just me then. We should have a female Dr Who, a female Bond. Why should we? More women MPs. Yes fine. As long as they're getting the jobs because of merit. Are women so insecure that they need this? Personally I've never felt inferior to men.