GP to be investigated by the GMC

Terri you keep shifting the ground on which you are arguing. You’ve used an example which has been appallingly misreported and is now whipped up by racists with the most appalling comments on the petition website. There seems to be no evidence that in general there is an issue in the NHS with veil wearing mothers taking their dc to the doctors. If you want a discussion about veil wearing then that should be separate from this particular issue of which the unbiased facts seem in short supply. The more I read about this doctor the more I wonder about his back story and what else is going on with him.

Wow - a lot of speculation on what the doctor may have been thinking or may have done. It seems some people have found him guilty before any investigation is complete.

We don't know exactly what was said in the room at the time - did he just say she should take off the veil or did he ask her if she would mind removing or lifting her veil.

The wearing of a veil is not a religious requirement it is a cultural one - just as women not being allowed to be alone in the presence of a non related male is. It seems the husband was prepared to overlook that custom.

So slywrite you think in Britain we should adopt a compulsary dress code for women? And what would that be?

You cant tell people to follow our dress standards withouy being clear about exactly what those standards are?

Does it apply to catholic nuns? Brides? Orthodox jews? Goths?

You cant say "when in rome" unless you are willing to state specific standards that need to be universally adhered to.

As I have said, I am ideologically opposed to women being veiled, but to impose being NON veiled is just as bad

The husband apparently complained to the hospital and they decided to refer the doctor. This case is being whipped up and we all know why

Do we? If the hospital pulled him in and he listened and admitted he did wrong... there is no way the hospital would want the bad PR of referring on to GMC. They would have sent him on diversity updates and issued an apology.

However, if they pulled him in and he responded with indignation and rants, THAT would warrent enough concern to refer to GMC...

Personally I think people should dress according to the society they live in. When I was in Dubai I had to cover my legs, my husband was even told off by a tour guide as he had long shorts on. When in Rome....

A GP should have the communication skills to work around an accent they struggle with without blaming the veil. Use closed questions. Or use language-line to do the consultation through their first language.

You wouldnt ask a white english non muslim to strip off if they were mumbling, you would work around it!

Some womem and girls will delay seeking medical treatment if they fear being unnessisarily de-veiled.

That his response is not to acknowledge the distress he caused and why he shouldnt have asked then to do it in a room alone with a non family male kind of tells me this complaint should progress. Usually these kinds of complaints dont go any further if that happens.

I am ideologically opposed to women being veiled but that should never, ever result in targetting individual women to make my point...

He used his position of authority to make an individual woman do something that would cause her discomfort for no medically justifiable reason. "Couldnt hear" doesnt hold water, at all.

Says a lot about what he thinks about women, not just muslim women. He should care about not making his patients feel unnecessarily vulnerable/exposed/undignified. But he doesnt does he?

I honestly dont believe that that Dr wouldnt have been aware that women who wear veils do so so that non relative males dont see their face. And that that would have applied to him too.

"Couldnt hear her" - nah! Was it a perspex veil?

Now, socially I see veils are oppressive. They are SOCIAL not religous IMO.

But it is never okay to push that poing on what individual women do, either its their choice and we shouldnt tell women and girls what to wear, or they are from an ultra conservative household in which case if a medic puts them on the spot and they take off their veil then they may be subject to later domestic violence as a result.

What you feel about veils in general should NEVER be manifested as putting pressure on individual women and girls to remove theirs. That makes you as bad as people who would force women and girls to wear them!

Best case scenario: he is not very bright. There are always chaperones available, especially at out of hours clinics.

But thats the best case scenario

And as another poster said, saying you cant hear through a veil does not add up.

I wasn't trying to make this an issue about race, more about the cultural aspect. In some respects there can be an incongruity about certain cultures and customs that are at odds with the laws and social parameters of the country where people live. In many respects the adherents to certain beliefs are the very people who are put at a disadvantage by an extreme interpretation of what is often adopted on their behalf. Jehovah's Witnesses for example, a religion that espouses an ethos which makes little sense, their followers are the ones who will suffer the most when a loved one dies because they aren't allowed to have a blood transfusion.

It appears that some of what would be deemed the most liberal countries such as Denmark are now saying that the onus should be on other cultures to adapt to where they live otherwise it's an impediment to social cohesion and some communities will be destined to live completely separate and quite often disadvantaged lives. In fact is that not part of the argument with LGBT syllabus that all schools are expected to adopt, that the teaching profession should not be impeded in their efforts in rolling this out nationally for the greater good of society as a whole. In the same way, possibly the GP in question also saw the veil as an impediment to making a proper diagnosis.

As I said upthread Jack Straw did ask Muslim women to remove their veil when he saw them at his surgery and I think at the time his point was, that it was a barrier to conversation.

I'm not suggesting we should go down the French road and have an out and out ban that route does seem somewhat draconian. Nevertheless to me they are a symbol of extreme patriarchal oppression, and I have heard emancipated Muslim women themselves say acceptance of such customs doesn't do them any favours.

We know nothing about what happened at the consultation so cannot judge.
But even if the GMC find ‘no case to answer’ with regard to the doctor’s behaviour at the time, I hope they will have something to say about his conduct subsequently, ie talking to the press.

Maryeliza I was actually referring to the husband but don't think I made that clear.

I thought the veil was a cultural thing and not a religious requirement.

Why were hoodies and balaclava's banned ?

I totally agree it’s been done to whip up a storm and another stick to beat a Muslim with
To liken a veil to a crash helmet is utterly ridiculous
It should never have happened and the doctor needs training in more than medicine

Well I’ve no idea have I EV and I doubt you have either

Maryeliza, so if I had complained wouldn't it have been construed as racism by those who are paranoid about whites complaining about foreigners ? Of course it would,
particularly if the doctor in question was a professional in her field against a" silly old woman who knows nothing " and was just out to make trouble.

Sadly, as we speak, the same hospital is under fire because of the " bullying culture " that exists.

In this case, the petition is encouraging racism. I haven’t seen a petition demanding he be sacked, has anyone?

EV in the example you give, the doctors nationality is completely irrelevant and the correct course of action would have been to complain to his/her employers.

It's been done to stir up racial comments-----both black and white races are as bad as each other when it comes to causing trouble.

I'm not being racist by saying that a foreign doctor hadn't told me that I'd had a mini-stroke after I'd had a scan for dizziness. If I had been racist I'd have written to the media because this was a serious health matter 18 months ago-----but I didn't !!

I have just looked up the petition. It is being signed by anyone and if you look at the reasons for signing you will see exactly what is to be expected - filthy racist ill informed comments. The heading to the petition is also factually incorrect in that it says he has been suspended. He has not.

The doctor is allowed to practice atm whilst the case is fully investigated. However he is a locum finding work through an agency so they appear to be playing safe - which is their right. As for his interviews with the press and the photo shoots, why not a dignified ‘ the matter is being investigated by the GMC and I don’t wish to comment further until that process is over’ His medical defence body would give him free advice and probably have written a press statement for him. As it is they are probably wringing their hands as he digs a deeper and deeper hole for himself.

maryeliza and if he had refused to speak to the press no doubt people would be saying it was because he had something to hide.

All I am saying is that the first I heard about this was when I was told about the petition started by his patients - whether it was reported in the press before then I have no idea.

He could have asked her to just move the veil away from her mouth. Not remove it.

Agree that it is disturbing to not be able to understand foreign doctors at hospitals.