GP to be investigated by the GMC

Actually, that’s true Nonnie.

On a lighter note but about believing what we read. DH told me in all seriousness that the queen had pulled out of meeting DT due to spurs on her heel! Should I be worried about him?

The GP should have recognised that the child's mother has a
cultural disability that makes her have to cover her face.

Cultural disability?

Agree with Terribull - you'd have thought that would be the easiest thing to do, that the husband would take the child in himself and many consultation rooms are not big enough to fit more than 2 people, so perhaps husband was asked to wait outside?
Having worked in an opticians, I have no problem with muslim women wearing the veil - it is a bit disconcerting to say the least the first few times, but there was usually a way around it as many of the women did not speak that good English, so tended to speak very quietly. Just making sure that there was a female member of staff to escort them (which I know isn't always possible) .
Surely just an apology from the GP practice is ok ? But have to wonder why the husband apparently complained to the hospital when it was nothing to do with them ?

Yes . There are lots of cultural disabilities. One notorious one is Jehovah's Witnesses refusing blood transfusions.

Some people have the cultural disability of being bloody- certain that having a naked face is best.

GPs need to remember that they are servants of whoever presents themself as a patient. I'd say that weraing a veil is a minor inconvenience to any medic, unless of course the patient has something wrong with her face which was not the case.

The doctor was wrong to go to the press.

Can it not be the woman was upset but like many of us when spoken to by a doctor who is abrupt in any way remain silent until we leave the surgery ?

GPs are not servants. They are self employed professionals.

And the patient in the room was the child!

Jehovah’s Witnesses are not disabled in any way whatsoever, they are making a choice to not have blood transfusions, which they are entitled to make, providing they are adults. In the case of children, normally if blood is required, the hospital authorities apply to the courts for the right to treat, which is normally awarded, and the child is treated.

Is anyone saying the child in this case was improperly treated by the doctor, or did he diagnose and treat correctly?

You don't quite understand, Maddyone, that the greatest honour anyone can have is to serve others .

I understand all too well Alexa, I think it’s you who doesn’t understand.

To be a doctor is to join a caring profession. That in no way detracts from the fact that doctors are highly trained professionals. They look after their patients in a professional way, that means they endeavour to diagnose and treat correctly and they treat the patient with respect. Doctors are not priests or nuns, they are not engaged in charity. Doctors work and get paid just like everyone else. It’s a job. Many doctors are dissatisfied, they feel they are not treated with respect by the public or by successive governments, and judging by some comments on this thread, they’d be right. They are voting with their feet, and we are losing doctors to countries where working conditions are far superior, pay is commensurate with their qualifications, and they are respected for the position they hold in society as responsible professional people.

People who hold the view that it’s a great ‘honour’ to serve others, and feel that doctors should themselves feel this, are at best naive, at worst deluded. Doctors need to pay the mortgage just like anyone else, and whilst the greatest majority do absolutely the best they can to take care of their patients, we can’t expect them to be seeking the greatest honour by serving. If they wanted to do that they’d have trained for the ministry.

You and I are both right, Maddyone. You describe how things stand as a matter of fact and I describe an ethical ideal.

However medics now are trained to regard their patients as active in their own health decisions. This Muslim woman's religion is such that it embraces her entire life including that special modesty in dress. The medic knows this or should know it.

A "cultural disability" to use my own expression is relative to whom it disables. The GP needed to see the mother's face. She had to hide her face. The GP was therefore slightly disabled by her culture.

You are correct Alexa, we do see things from a different perspective, but thank you for that anyway

My daughter and son in law are both GPs so perhaps I look at it in some ways from their perspective too. But I am a patient too, as we all are, and I expect to be treated with respect. I have had a horrible experience with a very disrespectful doctor once, a few years ago, but I was in hospital, it was not my GP. I was upset and annoyed, but I didn’t take it any further. Nor would I ever take it any further unless there was gross incompetence.

I am seriously worried though about the way in which we are haemorrhaging doctors to other countries, but I understand why they want to work elsewhere. Unfortunately the level of respect given to doctors is unbelievably low (in common with many other professions) as well as the hours being very long, it is not uncommon for GPs to work over 12 hours a day, and whilst they are reasonably well paid, in comparison to what they can earn in other countries, they are not well paid. If they are then to be complained about and shouted at (yes, that happens) and generally disrespected, then should we be surprised if they up and leave. It took my daughter 12 years to qualify as a GP, that’s a lot of training and I know that she was trained to always be respectful and to involve the patients in their treatment. I also hope we brought her up to be respectful towards others.

Although I worked as a teacher for many years, and for twenty years with Muslim families, and got to know many Muslims and was on very good terms with them, I had never heard the expression ‘culturally disabled’ before. I was unsure exactly what it meant. Now I know, I agree that both the doctor and the mother were slightly culturally disabled. But I will always maintain that the most important person in the room was the child, and the main thing is, was the child correctly diagnosed and treated.

Maddyone, I do respect doctors, and teachers too. I believe the great majority of both professions are conscientious sometimes to their own personal disadvantage.

I suggest stroppy patients and parents are often so because they are afraid of being intimidated by professionals who have a higher status than their own.

Maddyone, I was sorry you had that experience in hospital. Patients in hospital are even more vulnerable than patients with the GP. and if you were ill or recovering from surgery you would not have energy for protesting then and there

Yes Alexa, I’m sure you’re right about people feeling intimidated by professionals, perhaps especially by doctors because we need them so much when we are ill. My elderly mother is quite intimidated by doctors, not that she is rude or anything towards them. In her case she simply fails to give all the information because she simply answers the questions but doesn’t always see that further information she has may be relevant. A lot of elderly people are like that I think.

I did feel very embarrassed when the doctor in hospital was so rude to me, and so disrespectful, and my husband was extremely cross. The doctor in question was the consultant which meant he was actually teaching his junior doctors that it’s okay to behave like that, which can perpetuate the situation.

I sincerely hope my daughter is a much more sympathetic and respectful doctor. As a daughter she can be a monkey at times, but I’m sure she’s a good doctor.

Thank you for your kindness.

Maddyone of course the child’s health is the priority!! No one is disputing that! But there is no excuse for the ignorance and arrogance of this GP. Or perhaps, as another poster has suggested, he is just “not very bright” and doesn’t understand the implications.
I admire your description of your GP daughter of whom you must be very proud. It’s a shame not all GPs conform to her high standards.