What Would You Do

Tell her to pay to have a proper shower installed over the bath in the main bathroom?

Thank you gmarie This hasn't been a pleasant experience at all.

doodledog I do still feel DD was being unreasonable to come into my bedroom to access the ensuite in the mornings before DP or I am up. My view on that hasn't changed but at least there is a solution and I am grateful for helpful comments in resolving the problem.

I didn't mention needing to stay for longer in the flat initially because hopefully Brexit won't happen and it wasn't the main issue I needed to resolve.

I forgot to mention originally that the fully-paid for flat is mine, not hers, which led to some confusion initially. But who remembers everything to put in an OP?

I'm sorry that you feel upset by the comments; but we can only go on what is posted, and if you look at your OP there was no mention of Brexit or you need to use the flat more than before - it was all about your daughter being unreasonable.

I'm afraid that that does come across as disingenuous, and not very fair to your daughter. Based on that post, people suggested that you ask her to leave (which could come across as you wanting validation that you were still being charitable), and it was then that you said that yes, you needed to have that conversation.

Anyway, if it is all sorted, then that's good. With any luck, Brexit won't happen, or there will be a deal that allows EU citizens to continue to be able to stay with their partners, and both you and your daughter will be ok.

lucyinthesky I am sorry you are feeling some upset over negative responses. I've been on GN for a couple of months, now, and have noticed that a few will repeatedly take up contrary positions which come across as pointedly argumentative, rude and/or insulting whilst insisting they are simply giving their "opinions". I've commented about this before because I honestly don't understand why. Can't advice be offered minus the intentional barbs? In at least three of the instances that I can recall, the OP has left distraught and determined not to come back. Is that what we want?! People come here for support and the thoughtful perspectives of others, not to hear baseless assumptions and biting criticism. Please come back, Lucy, as there are always several very good points and suggestions made as well as many kind replies on every post. Most who disagree manage to stay on point and do it with tact and consideration. Ignore the rest.

What about just putting a lock on your bedroom door and lock it at night so she can't get in? She can just have quick bath in her own bathroom in morning. It is very inconvenient having someone coming through your bedroom with partner there - to say the least. Keep it locked when you go away (by mistake) so she gets use to it.

Notanan2 the flat is mortgage free now and there will be no problems of damp (it's a well maintained building. I would not be renting it out at all if I wasn't helping DD. Why should she pay exorbitant rents and pay someone else's mortgage? So yes I am being 'charitable' and DD would be the first to agree.

quizqueen I may well have to up the rent to afford the work on the shower - it all depends on how much it costs.

BIngo12 PS - yes we know about HTB etc. In London you still need a much higher salary than DD earns plus with London prices falling it would not be a sensible thing to do for now. The Government loan has to start being paid back after 5 years I think and she is unlikely as a journalist to earn a lot more than she currently does to take on higher debt.

Bingo12 thanks - DD has recently begun a new relationship with a very nice guy - luckily he also lives in his mother's home lol (and his mother stays at her DPs a lot of the time) so both DD and her DP are in a similar situation! I'm hoping they might eventually move in together one day.

It has been a mutually beneficial situation for the time and it is disingenous now for the OP to claim that she has been the benevolent charitable party and daughter should now bend around her.

Wow! How nasty can you get Notanan2 Did you miss the post when I specifically stated that if my daughter had moved out already my DP and I would have spent more time in the flat ourselves. No problem at all re insurance or anything else.

You say you don't need the rent money but that you can't afford a proper shower in the bathroom; that doesn't make sense. Use some of the rent money to install a shower. Up the rent if you need to.

It started as a story about a daughter who was being unreasonable about a shower, then we found that the OP wanted to change her arrangements from an occasional visit to half of the year, and wanted her daughter, who had been renting the flat from her, to move out, or make way for the OP and her partner.

No you are incorrect or have misunderstood - it did begin (and ended) with the shower situation BUT the longer stay situation only arises if Brexshit goes head, inwhich case DD and I will work out a new solution probably that seh finds somewhere else to rent. End of.

Making her feel that she is being asked to leave because she has been unreasonable doesn't seem fair, and verges on gaslighting.

I have absolutely no intention of doing this and not sure what led you to think it.

Thank you so much RubyLou at least you have an understanding of the situation!

I am almost in tears now over some posters uncomprehension, especially as the situation is sorted, for the time being!

For those posters who've been kind but I'm not sure I'll bother posting again if some of the responses I've got here is the norm. Worse than Mumsnet and that's saying something. Yes, I posted there as well to see what their advice would be.

OR - (still adding) - daughter might try to move someone into the flat as well!

Want to add - OP do not jeopardise your relationship with your partner because of daughter - who may meet someone and move out at any time!

Eva2 solonge read the xxxxing thread before making dumb comments - the issue is sorted.

You could of course legally make over the flat to her in lieu of an inheritance when you die, but get that drawn up by a lawyer, and move to Paris permanently or find a small affordable property for yourself.

This has to be the worst thought out solution yet! I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN PARIS PERMANENTLY and IN ANY CASE thanks to Brexshit this won't be open to me if I did want to! I won't be making over my home to my children (yes I have more than 1) and they don'twant it anyway. My property IS already a SMALL AFFORDABLE property! FFS.

Notanan2 It is both our homes. All my belongings bar a few clothes and books, collected over my adult life are in my home (the flat).

OP - I do not think anyone has mentioned the 'help to buy' and 'shared ownership' arrangements available to low paid workers when buying flats in new builds now - there are lot around in London at the moment. They are very reasonably priced. Your daughter should look into such schemes - she would then have a mortgage for such ownership. So all she would need is deposit and be able to pay mortgage. She could probably get a 20 or 30 year mortgage at her age. She can get advice on the matter. Tell her about it and honestly how you feel.

The daughter has also kept the flat safe and aired and "house-sat" while the OP has been in france.

Without the DD there OP would either have had to leave it empty (mortgage companies, freeholders/property manager/insurers dont like this, it encourages damp and leaves the flat vulnerable) in order to have ocassional use of the flat
Or rent it out full time and have no use of it!
Because no full price paying lodger/flatmate would accept the OPs terms!

It has been a mutually beneficial situation for the time and it is disingenous now for the OP to claim that she has been the benevolent charitable party and daughter should now bend around her.

I have read all of the thread .

I agree that intergenerational living can be difficult; but that's not the whole story here. It started as a story about a daughter who was being unreasonable about a shower, then we found that the OP wanted to change her arrangements from an occasional visit to half of the year, and wanted her daughter, who had been renting the flat from her, to move out, or make way for the OP and her partner.

Yes, it would cost a lot to rent in London at full price, and yes, the OP has paid the mortgage, like any other landlord. But if that is to be taken into account, what about the profit that has been made on London property for so long, that makes it impossible for young people to rent unless they have a high income. It's a 'boomer/millenial' parable, really.

It's neither the OP's, nor the daughter's fault that London rents are so high; but unless the daughter was told clearly at the start of the arrangement that she was basically a house-sitter, and could be evicted if her mother's circumstances changed, then I can understand her feelings about the visits.

As it is, Brexit looks likely to make it necessary for the OP to spend a lot more time in the flat; so the honest thing would be to explain that to her daughter, and mutually agree a solution. Making her feel that she is being asked to leave because she has been unreasonable doesn't seem fair, and verges on gaslighting.

It is your daughter's home !
It may be your property
But it is her home.

If you dont want her to treat her home like her home just because you own it, then you need to stop taking her money and end the arrangement.

Hi, I just want to say that I am very surprised by posters who are not sympathising with Lucyinthesky and her dilemma. As I see it you worked to pay off a mortgage on this flat which you own and it is your home. I really think posters make points without reading the whole thread. You kindly allow your 34 year old daughter to stay in the family home well into her 30s and charge her a well below market rent. She has a boyfriend to stay and so do you. Neither of you particularly want to swap bedrooms.

Personally I think your daughter was being highly entitled and possibly competitive with your OH by asking him to be up and dressed so she can use the shower. But you seem to have had a good discussion with her.

As you say, time now to bring a bit more reality home to her. It's your home and you and your OH may need to spend more time in London. Will he be allowed to do that? I guess we don't know that yet.

I had a taste of this. My OH and I are on second marriages and his son and girlfriend asked to stay (rent free) in the house OH and I bought together. Son and G/F were about 26 at that time. We too had an ensuite with a shower and there is a family bathroom with bath and shower attachment but not an overhead shower. One night after 11pm OH and I were in bed in darkness preparing to sleep. Drunk G/F appeared at the door asking to use the shower. My OH who normally appeases everyone said it wasn't on and she disappeared. It wasn't discussed but she didn't ask again though they had access to the shower when we weren't in bed.

It's difficult sharing our own homes with our children.

Well done Lucy for managing this so well.

I honestly feel the only solution to this is to ask, or tell your daughter to move.

If you prefer, you could lay down the law and say it is your home, and she will not use your bathroom before you are up in the morning, nor will she dictate when your OH gets up or whether he dresses when he does get up.

It is really immaterial whether you spend all year, bar a fortnight or so in Paris. You regard the flat as yours, so tell your daughter so.

She'll hate you for it and probably OH even more.

You could of course legally make over the flat to her in lieu of an inheritance when you die, but get that drawn up by a lawyer, and move to Paris permanently or find a small affordable property for yourself.

Either swap rooms or put in a shower in main bathroom.

Absolutely agree..... you are out of order Mom. It's your daughter's home, her rules not yours. I think you and your OH need to show some courtesy. Why would you think it's acceptable to tell her when to shower in her own home.? Count your blessings she let's you stay there with your man.

I can understand her not wanting to shower in the same room as you and your OH are sleeping, even if the sower room is private (is it?). There is a compromise though. As you are only there for short periods of time it is not unreasonable for her to use the other bathroom. I am not sure of your financial situation but would it cost an awful lot to have an overhead shower fitted - maybe £200 - £300 (ballpark figure) which would be worth maintaining the relationship with your daughter which assumable is good. Or could the shower issue be underlying something else?