AIBU in thinking that the appalling behaviour in Parliament is reflecting the general mood when it should be trying to set an example to improve relations with each other?

jura you frequently post about the fact that you know a lot of youngsters ( more and more even) on the Remain side who are choosing to distance themselves from their parents and grandparents. I hate to think what sort of people you mix with where years of paternal love and care can be swept away over Brexit. I thank God my family (I have no idea how they voted and they have no idea how we voted because none of us asked) have more sense and look to what is important in life. Love and family and future generations. You will no doubt come back and tell me it is because of the future generations that you are so incensed and voted as you did but what is the point of it all if families fall out with each other.

I suppose we are in a very unusual situation. Parliament doesn't often have to make such a big decision as this one. Tempers are bound to be frayed. I think we should give them some leeway. You only have to look at social media to see that the general public are worse than they are.

Don't think this thread should be used to put more of your own views on Brexit over. Not what the OP is all about tbh.

Why do the threads on here so often descend into personal attacks on other posters? If you feel the need to insult other GNetters, why don't you switch to private messages? I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels very uncomfortable at reading these posts.

As for the subject....I am very concerned at the behaviour of our MPs. They seem to have little self-respect or dignity. We wouldn't tolerate that sort of rowdiness from school children. Yet these are the people who are running our country. How can we have faith in their judgement, when they act on their emotions instead of common sense and rational thinking.

No you are not being unreasonable. The behaviour in Parliament in the past weeks has been deplorable. Grandstanding, braying posh white males acting like playground bullies What is lacking is proper debate, proper scrutiny, All you get is the same lines over and over again

The appalling behaviour in Parliament at present is initiating the general mood of discontent in the country when we see our elected representatives behaving in a way that would not be tolerated in any school. I hold John Bercow i very much responsible for the lapse in general manners and conduct, as he has ignored the requirement for the speaker to be impartial and failed to promote reasonable standards of behaviour in debate.
He was a bad appointment, made for the wrong reasons, and has outstayed his term in office to disastrous effect.
It will take great strength of character to restore this unruly Parliament to some semblance of order; it has scented blood and will be difficult to control.
I am ashamed of them.

I think Bercow has a lot to answer for. He lets the ( searching for a word here ) go too far. I think he rather enjoys it too. If he stopped the nastiness at an earlier stage it might not escalate.
Imho which is based on what I view on tv and without any intellectual background the adversarial set up encourages ill feeling.
Having said that I do like watching Bercow. He is great entertainment on a moderate day. Hope his replacement isn't dry dull and boring.

Framilode, you and I will have to disagree. You see as a remainer ( I suspect) you saw a dealwhen in fact it was a treaty to remain in the EU. It was not a document to leave the EU.

This has carried on and it is still the problem with Parliament and remain MP's ( not to mention their followers) now. Their idea of a "deal" is to stay in the EU - at least the "dumbs" are honest about it. The rest of you keep trying to look oh so reasonable whilst being lying duplicitous rats or worse, completely brainwashed into thinking it is OK.

Abbey If the ERG and the DUP had voted for the deal we would have been out a long time ago. They didn't just want out they wanted the 'perfect' Brexit. If you want to blame anyone, blame them. They didn't like the backstop but that was something requested by us.

Remainers are perfectly entitled to their views, they make up at least half the country. I think most of us could accept a Brexit that takes our views into consideration. We are just not prepared to leave without a deal. So if you are so angry I suggest you direct it at the Tories that didn't vote for the deal.

..... anger, hate, destruction and inciting violence - that is what you want for your grandchildren? There is no answer to that, I am sorry.

That is what remainers will have left as a legacy, not me.

Of course you have no answer. You are it seems part of the problem.

What is the UK come to sad

What you have made of it.

Abbey - words fail me - anger, hate, destruction and inciting violence - that is what you want for your grandchildren? There is no answer to that, I am sorry.

I am going to stop you right there!

#I am not inciting anything. I am simply stating how I feel. That is allowed. I have not suggested violence in way shape or form. A good verbal bun fight clears the air all round. It often stops violence because it allows the views and feelings to be expressed.

What I want for the future does not seem to matter to you. However, I do think we need to help our children to stand up and be counted for what they believe in. I would hate to see them being door mats for the EU that is for sure.

I suppose it is against netiquette to copy and post elsewhere - but it is so tempting- to show people what is happening sad

I believe it is.
Whats the matter need reinforcements - rent a mob like many other places on the internet now?

Yes Jura, I recall you telling me to go once before because you cannot stand disagreement . Well I have news for you, forums are for disagreeing and saying what you think .... even allowing you to do the same. I may not agree with you but I would certainly never stop you speaking and if your side won a referendum or an election I would respect it - thats how reasonable I am. I dont try to shut others down with my how awful and how offended I might be.

If you are going to repost anything of mine, make sure it is in context otherwise I might get stroppy and see what can be done about it.

I suppose it is against netiquette to copy and post elsewhere - but it is so tempting- to show people what is happening

More and more youngster I know on Remain side are choosing to distance themselves from their parents and grand-parents- as they are disgusted at their attitude- and goodness, I can understand now.

abbey - words fail me - anger, hate, destruction and inciting violence - that is what you want for your grandchildren? There is no answer to that, I am sorry.

What is the UK come to

" Appalling behaviour " was already in-situ before Parliament misbehaved so I'd have said that it was these members of the misbehaving public that had set a precedent for MP's to act in this way too being that it seems to be the norm nowadays.

Goodness Abbey, anger much. I hope for your own sake that venting has made you feel better. (By the way, I didn't see your post 3 years(?) ago, or I wouldn't have asked.)

Boris is not a good example of democracy, or honesty,or anything at all as far as i can see.
The other side isn’t any better, it is a complete mess.
So I think Abbey that it is just as well that you have made your decision & come to the best solution for your peace of mind.

You got a response..... not the one you wanted I am sure.

Actually I did give some very concrete and clear reasons I felt Brexit was the best move. No one replied.
I got told by the remainders here to go away. Since then I have said nothing more. (as I said .... this is remain central).

Too late to ask me now. That fight has gone. The reasonableness in my view has now gone. I am not listening to you as you did not listen to me. You get it?

I still have my reasons and I still think they are good ones. Sound economic, political and social ones.

But this has gone beyond "sovereignty "( and that was never in my list anyway) . I am a pragmatic practical person, not an idealist). Why is it you have to pick on an ideologue argument and not the many economic and social ones there were? Is it that you never listened or heard or wanted to understand? Why ask now?

It is about democracy now. Its about honouring what was voted for in a vote given to the people beyond representitive government and promised that the decision would be honoured.

It doesnt matter now who "wins" as one way or another there is going to be a lot of anger and hate around and it wont go away. Its no use trying to make it go away by putting out your virtue signalling again and asking for us all to be nice. I have done nice. I did it for three years and look where it got me? Still having to argue. It should not be. You should not be asking why I voted to leave the EU. Not now. The decision was made.

I was given a vote. I voted. More people agreed with me and we won that vote. For three years others have tried to stop that. Had you allowed it and then fought your battle to return to the EU I would respect you ( as you would have respected the vote). That you did not, now means all I have left for you is anger, hostility, annoyance and downright disgust - all of which now need a vent.

So, we need that bun fight. We might even need a bigger fight, I dont know. I want to hurl the insults , say nasty things kick you metaphorically in your privates. Nothing else will do now. Its gone beyond reasonable.

So stop trying to be reasonable. I voted Leave the EU. Thats what I want I want it on October 31st. If Boris delivers, I will vote for Boris again and again and again!!!!!

That is what you are afraid of isnt it? So, you have to stop it. You have to stop him and it has to be at all costs - democracy, the country, my vote and my decision, all out of the window and you still want to call that " democracy". What you have created is a dictatorship .... and I hope that it bites you socialist types on the bum because what goes around most definitely will come back around. I hope I am here to see it.

That is all you have left me in this whole debacle you call overturning Brexit. Anger, hate and destruction.

I am not returning to this. I have said what I want to say. No doubt you will all take sharp inkakes of breath and say how foul I am ..... but who is really the foul one here? Who really stinks? Those who legitimately voted to leave the EU and believed that they would accept the vote, whichever way it went or those like you remainers who could not accept the vote and have spent three years mucking it and people like me around to get your own churlish and childish ends?

abbey thank you for making your positiom so clear.

On another post (and others before, I believe), Leavers were asked if they could provide some clear bullet-points of concrete benefits they expect to see after Brexit (i.e. not woolly phrases such as 2regaining our sovereignty" etc.)

I was mulling over to myself what these were, as surely Leavers must expect some concrete benefits to compensate for the upheaval and possible(?) negative impact?? otherwise the words 'turkey' and 'Christmas' come to mind.

A response would be much appreciated.

Shoulds woulds coulds, good manners...... lets all be nicey nicey.

Actually I think the bun fight is long overdue. I think its time we all slung a few insults and home truths around. As a Brexiter I have said very little, trying to be " nice". Now I would just like to have my say and slin g it all at ya! I know this is remain central .

I have gone past angry with you lot of SJW talking liberals taking my democratic rights and spending my money on your pet projects including trying to stop a democratically voted for LEAVE the EU.

Many members of parliament, for many years have behaved in this appalling manner. They should be leading this country by example.

This should not be acceptable but is apparently ok.

I agree with Shinyredcar. Good manners cost nothing and no, it’s not old-fashioned, it’s civilised

They sound much more measured today. Johnson obviously using aggressive language as a tactic to cover up his failures.

If you want to see someone who behaves in Parliament as a PM should, just look at the Leader of the Opposition!

We need a GE after no-deal Brexit on Oct 31 has been taken off the table.