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50s women

(130 Posts)
Gingergirl Thu 03-Oct-19 10:54:37

AIBU to be incensed at the ruling today regarding ‘compensation’ for the change of state pension age for women in their 50s? Personally, I don’t have a private pension and always thought I would receive a state pension at 60. I need to wait until 66 (which is two years time for me). I don’t ever recall being informed of this and if I had been aware of it, my life choices after bringing up the children may have been quite different. I am fortunate...I have a husband earning a good wage and I work part time but I know many women who don’t have work, are living on their own, or simply can’t keep going in a very physical job until they are 66. It makes me so angry that we have experienced this put up and shut up attitude.

Pudding123 Sat 05-Oct-19 19:45:31

I when considering taking early retirement 12 years ago rang the dept of work and pensions to confirm the date of my state pension ,it was confirmed over the phone it would be on my 65 th birthday this was confirmed in a follow-up letter ,as I had saved up and been frugal all my adult life I was lucky enough to base my calculations on this ,paid off the mortgage with part of my lump sum and invest the rest some months later I received a contradictory letter telling me the goalposts had changed and I would not receive my state pension until 10 months could this be considered legal let alone moral

Classic Sun 06-Oct-19 13:15:56

I, like most others have never received notification that I wouldn't get my pension 13 months ago when I turned 60. At 58 I closed my small business down as I was no longer fit enough or had good enough eyesight to continue, I had only been self employed about 10 years and have made the required contributions. I found out from the tax office when I closed the business that I didn't have 2 years to wait for my pension but 8, now 9. So I work 6 hours a day on minimum wage and hope I can keep going, oh and I look after a very disabled brother too. I had never had the opportunity or wages that men had, there was no equality then, so for them to say they are doing this for equality for men is disgraceful. How many women over 60 do the government and DWP employ? And I don't mean as cleaners or tea ladies, there is still no equality, and its very difficult for women my age to get a job at all. I wonder if its a government ploy to create a readily available workforce to man the care homes, even though it can be very heavy work, and more people have to go into care homes as daughters have to work till they are 67.

Chucky Sun 06-Oct-19 15:41:50

We fought for equality, not for equality apart from the bits we don’t like! I don’t get state pension until I’m 67 (first age group who have to wait this long).

Surely those who wanted to be equal with men realised that they couldn’t pick and choose what bits they wanted equality in?

Chewbacca Sun 06-Oct-19 16:11:18

You're 100% correct Chucky we definitely do have to have complete equality with men, including the bits we might not like. And had 1950s women had complete equality with men during our working lives; parity of wages; full access to pension schemes; encouraged and supported in the workplace regarding childcare instead of having total responsibility for that and not having been told we couldn't work post marriage, we'd have had a completely level playing field. Fact is, we didn't. Many of us did bits part time work, earning very low wages and no access to pension schemes, so that the men could go out to work and leave caring for the family to us. And then we got shafted when the SRP age was accelerated, without actually letting us know when our SRP age would actually be, leaving us with no time to make future plans.

Frankly I can't believe you didn't know any of this.

Chucky Sun 06-Oct-19 18:41:59

Chewbacca I do know of these concerns. I also know many women older than me who continued to work during having and bringing up their family (and they put in to their works pension)!

My point is women were not happy with the way things were (totally reasonably so) and the quest for equality has been going on for rather a long time. Did they seriously think that they would get their equality without there being some major drawbacks, regarding where they were positively discriminated with regard to men?

Chewbacca Sun 06-Oct-19 18:56:26

Then lucky you for having employment that paid you enough to put into a pension scheme chucky; many thousands of us weren't. We worked in shops, cleaning jobs, as dinner ladies or other low paid employment; often part time because we had no access to child care to enable us to follow a career.
And that's what made the playing field unequal with men. Level that out retrospectively and I'll happily agree with you that we should have parity with men.

gillybob Sun 06-Oct-19 19:19:04

How presuming of you that we were all able to “make proper provision for ourselves” after all we all have very different circumstances .

Chewbacca Sun 06-Oct-19 19:59:02

I think it's a case of, "I'm alright Jack, so the rest of you must have been negligent/stupid/careless/spendthrifts" Gillybob. Tough luck to those of raising our children single handedly, without childcare for school holidays/after school or in low paid part time work that had no pension schemes to join. angry

janieuk Sun 06-Oct-19 22:27:30

I am a member of my local Waspi group who have been challenging the changes to our pensions for the last 3 years. We are all devastated by the result of the Judicial Review but we won't give up, I feel certain an appeal will be lodged. Unfortunately I think the government can do what they like - our NI contributions have been spent on other things by successive governments and although they seem to find money for all sorts of things at the drop of a hat, they are not willing to find it for us. We have been badly let down and if we had paid into private pensions schemes who changed the goalposts it would have been seen as illegal. I speak as someone who was widowed in my 30s, have brought up my daughter alone, working part-time when she was young so I could give her stability, and am now almost 65, helping to look after grandchildren, looking after my 91 year old dad in between and still working part-time. Like others I will have worked for 50 years by the time I receive my State Pension, earning no extra for this, due to receive less than some because employment with my local Council advised me to contract out for several years. I am angry and frustrated beyond words at the way we have been treated, and at the £45,000 I have lost by this action.

Chucky Sun 06-Oct-19 22:28:44

Chewbacca perhaps you misread my post? I said I knew many woman who paid into a pension fund. I wasn’t one of them. I had NO childcare. I had to go out to work evenings when my husband came home from work! If not that I had to work night shifts, then come home so my husband could go to work and I could look after our children. At one stage I was working 3 part time jobs (no pension provision), sometimes going from one job to the next! My husband and I hardly saw each other until he had to give up work because of severe ill health.

It was only then I retrained and had a decent career and started putting in to a personal pension. However, I was intelligent enough to realise things couldn’t continue the way they were and there wasn’t sufficient money in the Country to continue to pay state pensions the way it was. Wasn’t a large leap to see that women (wanting equality with men) might be one way for governments to cut back!!

My personal pension is worth about £300 per month!! However I have worked my arse off to save money, so I have something to supplement this pittance, until I get my state pension at 67, or perhaps even later! We didn’t have holidays abroad (my dh has never been on a plane), or even often at home and neither of us has a passport. You have to decide what’s important, now or later!

So Chewbacca it isn’t a case of “I’m alright Jack.” I just struggle to think that there were so many females who didn’t consider what was going to happen with equality and how easy it would be for any Government to justify that you wanted equality so you can have the bad as well as the good!!

Doodledog Mon 07-Oct-19 01:46:52

It’s never a good sign when people refer to women as ‘females’. It says a lot about their attitude to the female sex.

JenniferEccles if you really think that everyone who hasn’t ‘made provision for themselves’ had the opportunity to do so, I suggest you leave your ivory tower and look around you.

I am semi- retired, and have an occupational pension, but I will have to wait another six years for my State Pension.

My last employer had a gender pay gap of 20%. When I started working (different occupation) the Equal Pay Act had just been passed, and my employer changed the job titles of the young men coming into the company, so they could pay them more (same entry qualifications and the job had previously had the same title). Not only that, but the men were sent on training courses etc, so they went on to be managers, while the women stayed in the office (so had less chance to pay into a pension).

I left, and changed my career path entirely, but that sort of thing was widespread, and coupled with childcare responsibilities etc, meant that many women were unable to pay enough into a pension to ‘provide for themselves’. Women (and men) working for minimum wage can’t do so either.

What does irritate me is that women who have worked, paid tax, NI, childcare costs etc have to wait years for their pensions, whilst those who could afford not to work had their NI paid by the state, often for decades.

It’s always benefit claimants who are blamed when this subject comes up, but middle class women who choose not to work get a good deal too.

Americanpie Mon 07-Oct-19 08:35:42

I would urge every woman to get in touch with the pensions dept and get a quote of what your pension will eventually be in writing. I have to wait until I am 66 before I get a pension and I was shocked to find out the despite paying in for almost 35 years I will not qualify for the full state pension. My employer contracted us out for a number of years which ,I didn't realise, has in effect, reduced my entitlement. Thank goodness for my works pension. I asked how much I would need to pay to qualify for the new pension and it was thousands of pounds. Yes I am mad about it. Never claimed a penny in benefits, never had any children and yet penalised for being born in the 50's.

Loislovesstewie Mon 07-Oct-19 09:14:01

In respect of the contracted out contributions , this is really not unfair. I will explain. If you were enrolled in certain pension schemes , primarily local, central government, NHS then you qualified for a generous final salary scheme , the contributions made by you to that scheme were also tax free. So you did not make additional contributions via NI to the sate pension as you were in line for a fairly good scheme with your employer. Your employer ,by law, had to take a reduced NI contribution from you; there was no choice in this matter.
So , in actual fact you and I didn't pay full NI but were compensated by being in a fairly generous ( to my way of thinking at least) final salary scheme. The local government scheme changed in , I think, 2016 so NI contributions are the same and there is no contracted out element. I think the revised local government pension is also not so generous.
The way to look at it is that you get additional pension from your employer which will compensate you , in may cases more than adequately, for not getting the full state pension. My husband , for example will be very much better for being in the local government scheme . So will I when I get my state pension, even if it is later than I hoped.

Barmeyoldbat Mon 07-Oct-19 09:52:36

I feel sorry for the people who are having to wait for their pensions, but I think the first part was fair.

It was the 1995 Pension Act that raised the pension age for women gradually over 10 years starting in April 2010 until March 2020. So that was 15 years notice with a gradual raise over 10 years. That bit I think was fair, it needed equality.

What I don't think is fair and is outrageous is the EXTRA years added on without a thought or any notice. I will say also that this has hit men as well, who wants to work on a building site until 68?.

Doodledog Mon 07-Oct-19 11:45:31

Something that I think people are missing, is that the pension age difference meant that retired couples had more time together. On average, men marry women slightly younger than they are, and women live a bit longer than men. This meant that if the average couple retired when the woman was 60 and the man 65, it would be at roughly the same time, so they would have time together in retirement.

Women will now be retiring at 66 or 67, so if their husbands are 5 years older they will be in their 70s with less time to live.

I am not convinced that there is not enough money to keep the status quo. The UK is still the 6th richest country in the world. I think that this is yet another example of the public buying the line that we are broke - we aren't.

If the rich were taxed properly there would be more in the coffers, and there would be no need for people who have worked for over 35 years to be relying on foodbanks and benefits.

Maggiemaybe Mon 07-Oct-19 12:27:28

Yes, I turned 60 four days before DH turned 65, so we always assumed we’d retire the same week. I’m lucky in that I have a partner and a local government pension, so we could still do so, and help our DC with childcare as we always planned to. I’ll get my state pension when I’m 66.

As I said, I’m lucky to have the local government pension. I didn’t consciously plan ahead and don’t pat myself on the back for making proper provision. I’m just so grateful that the job I did came with the pension that has turned out to be so much more important than I ever thought it would be.

I’m very sorry for women who haven’t been so fortunate and have had to change their retirement plans at short notice and work so much longer, often at unsuitable and minimum wage jobs, often while struggling to care for parents/partners/grandchildren at the same time.

I’m a WASPI member and will continue to demonstrate, write my letters and chase up my MP to try to get some sort of redress for the damage that’s been done.

travelsafar Tue 08-Oct-19 08:11:20

Chewbacca well said on your post about women in the 50's being totally unequal to men in terms of jobs, childcare etc.

Margs Wed 09-Oct-19 10:34:48

None of it is remotely fair but at least I'm not in the position of some women who are trapped in an abusive partnership with a mysoginistic idiot who tells them that as they are financially dependent on a man they had better do as they're told.....I do know someone that this happened to, unfortunately.

What a world! But for all the sh*t we've had to put up with I won't be coming back in the Next Life as a man......

Scentia Wed 09-Oct-19 10:50:22

I was told back in the ‘80’s to make sure I had a pension in place as I would not be able to rely on the state pension like people could in the past. I contracted out at the time, but think I have been contracted back in at some point!
I can’t understand the pension system so I trust my advisor implicitly.
What I do know is that at 53 I can’t see myself working this hard for another 13 years!!
I am making plans to get rid of all my debts over the next few years in the hope I can retire at 60 with my private pension then my state pension at 66.
I am not happy about it but what else can the government do, we don’t have a ‘magic money tree’ and we are all too healthy for our own good.
We have to suck it up I am afraid.

Washerwoman Wed 09-Oct-19 18:41:55

Of course as a recently turned 60 year old I'm not happy about an almost 7 year wait. I'm fortunate to have a modest private pension,and had intended to work at least another 3 /4 years but running my own very physical business,plus helping with some of the GCs childcare and a very frail ,elderly mum to visit daily I just couldn't carry on.However I do appreciate as in my mum's case -97 - and an aunt's case -92 that paying out pensions to that age, with an increasingly elderly population,is unsustainable.
It's hard not to feel resentful,much as I love them,knowing they both retired at 60 with years of leisure ahead of them.Neither had elderly relatives to care for. And I don't think they appreciate how squeezed a lot of the Waspi women are.But times,and demographics have changed and it won't get any easier for my DDs so accept it I must.Reluctantly .

Ericabro Fri 11-Oct-19 14:30:51

My thoughts are that we had a agreement that when we reached 60 we would retire and that if this was a private pension we would report this to the FCA, I have still to be informed that my pension age has changed and I am only aware because of the Waspi group, I hear Poland ladies have had their pension age reduced to 60 from 65 and the Gents stays the same at 65 as they now have funding from all the EU money they receive, As people have said previously Good old Boris is now keeping quiet isnt he

Ericabro Fri 11-Oct-19 14:33:48

The other thing that is annoying is that I have worked hard in many part time jobs and only received half stamp in some instances but if I had stayed at home and claimed benefits I would have a full stamp paid for me how unfair is that , I just hope something can be sorted out to bring the age back down

aprilrose Sun 13-Oct-19 07:30:31

We fought for equality, not for equality apart from the bits we don’t like! I don’t get state pension until I’m 67 (first age group who have to wait this long)

When I read posts like this I often wonder who the "We" is that they refer to. I am in the same bracket as the poster in this quote but I can assure you I never fought for any equality. I cant say as I was old enough when any of this fighting was going on to be a part of it.

In 1974 when the equal pay act started I was a child in school. When the pension age of women was raised to 65 in line with men, I was a teenager.

No, I didnt fight for any of this. I had it imposed upon me by those who did. In fact I am not sure I would have wanted it.

Another thing I disagree with is the WASPI claim to go back to 60 - nice that it was, I would have settled ( and would they have been more successful?) if the request had been for women born in the 1950's to have their pension ages returned to 65? Thus removing the main bugbear here, which is for most the newer rise in pension age to 66 and 67 with little notice.

I am finding now, as I move into my 60's, that I really am too old to work but cannot retire because of that last change which was thrown on us so suddenly.

But I still say, I did not fight for any equality. So please stop saying "We" the few who did.

Maggiemaybe Sun 13-Oct-19 12:57:51

WASPI have never asked for the pension age to be reversed. As I posted earlier, they are campaigning for a form of bridging payment to help the women worst affected by the changes. They fully accept that equalisation of the pension age had to happen, but disagree with the way it has been done.

Maggiemaybe Sun 13-Oct-19 13:02:45

The BackTo60 members presumably want just what their title says, but WASPI is a completely different group.