AIBU to wonder whether people take th NHS for granted?

When I started my petition I wanted to open a dialogue about the situation as it is with waste of NHS resources and discussions about what could be done. Sharing the information will make a difference and will get people thinking. So, even if my petition does not succeed in persuading the Health Secretary to authorise a fresh nationwide campaign to inform people, I sincerely believe discussions between us, spreading to family and friends, will definitely influence people to actively consider their options and lead to savings in any event.

As well as temperature, exposure to light and moisture can be problematic. And think about it from the poor pharmacists point of view - how are they supposed to know who to believe? It would be unworkable.

suziewoozie

I never thought about temp storage. But I have tried to return pills that have just been brought to my home via a carer and they won't though common sense says it's been 10 minutes!

It’s a really tricky one isn’t it about patient confidentiality. If only people sorted out LPAs whilst they were able to. If they haven’t, I just don’t know what the answer is.

As for the cost of missed appointments, I'm sure some of this is down to inefficient NHS admin. My dh was sent to the wrong centre for a minor procedure. By the time he got there and was told, it was too late to get to the other centre for the appt.
Also a Bil, many years after he'd moved house - and in the meantime had had several appt. letters sent to his correct address - had a letter sent to the address he'd left over 15 years previously! If the current owners hadn't forwarded it, that would have been another appt. missed.

And I've heard so many times of relatives/carers of people with dementia, repeatedly telling NHs staff that it's no use sending letters only to such patients, who will not only never remember, but will very likely hide or destroy the letters. The carer needs a copy, too.

They always quote 'patient confidentiality' but what is the use when appts. are almost certainly going to be missed? It's all very well if you have a Health and Welfare power of attorney, but some people stubbornly refuse to agree to this, esp. when dementia has in any case made them suspicious of anyone's motives.

I'm starting to wonder if that's what they mean, suzie. It would certainly make more sense. The sentence is at the end of the information meant specifically for patients signed up to patient access. We don't get any paper prescriptions if signed up, just order what we need online. But I can see that sentence also appears on the information given for patients who still prefer to pick up paper prescriptions.

I've just seen that we can update our own medical records online. I've never noticed that before.

Maggie I can’t help but wonder they destroy the dispensed medications or destroy the actual bit of paper on which the prescription is printed? Is your GPs a dispensing surgery?

It’s my GP surgery website that states that all repeat prescriptions not collected within 2 weeks will be destroyed, suziewoozie. My DH collects his from a local pharmacy, I guess others go to the surgery itself to collect theirs. Wherever they are held, I can’t see why they should be disposed of.

I’m going to email the surgery and ask them.

Never thought of that suziewoozie but I suppose unless you are collecting thngs that need special storage you just wouldn't know. Ido think it is much more complicated than it seems at first.

Depending on what you are collecting, I think you’ll find that the pharmacist collects them from different storage areas in the shop. Some are fetched from the fridge. Others are fine at room temperature.

Maggie I was talking about the complaints about pharmacists not taking back medicines that patients return. I’d never heard before about pharmacists destroying medicines not collected. I hope when prescriptions go uncollected that the pharmacists infirm the GP surgery.

trisher I’m also ultra aware of storage temperatures because a family member uses insulin. That’s a very serious issue of course as ineffective insulin could result in their death. But it’s an important issue generally and pharmacists are ultimately and utterly responsible for anything they dispense as far as their storing it correctly and being fully aware of its provenance. We should be grateful we have high professional standards in this country when you think of all the counterfeit drugs swamping the internet and unregulated markets.

Not that I've noticed Maggiemaybe they are kept next to the counter in a tray at my local Boots. I assume they might store them elsewhere overnight.

If my DH’s simvastatins are safe for him to use when he collects them, why should they be destroyed if he doesn’t, for whatever reason?

But surely medicines being held at a pharmacy for customers are kept securely and at the right temperature until they’re collected? If not, why not?

Thanks suziewoozie I never knew about the complications of storage. I do think the problem of the re-use of medicines is so much more complicated than most of us realise, and good intentioned as the general public may be the restrictions are there to protect everyone.

www.careinspectorate.com/images/documents/1915/Temperature%20Reqs%20for%20Medicine%20Storage_HCR0316099.pdf

This sets it out. When I used to inspect GP premises, we had to verify the temperature of the fridge used for storing certain medicines and the surgeries had to keep a log sheet attached to the fridge on which the daily temperature reading was recorded.

pink it’s wider than tampering - storage temperatures are incredibly important for some medicines. My guess is that storage conditions are a greater threat than tampering.

There is no consistency here either. Some Pharmacies will return items to the shelf if they haven't left the premises. Others seem keen to destroy. Perhaps can't be bothered with the paperwork required to return it to use?

To think the fear of tampered medications is still kind of recent.
Does it even happen?
It is a enormous waste....if the Pharmacy send out something I cannot use, or too much, it has to be binned yet it can be clear with that say a blister pack of pills is that it is untouched

Trisher your point is so valid. That is why there are two sections to my petition. One to ask for a nationwide programme to educate people in the amount of waste taking place and what they can do to reduce waste. That does not need to cost a fortune. The second section is about the items that are left unused and which are safe to reuse - like dressings, disposable gloves etc. Too much to include on one short post. There are so many things to think of, but if we could make a start somewhere, spread awareness, have a dialogue with friends and family, even if the Health Secretary takes no notice of my petition we can spread the message and all take steps to make a difference. It's a case of do we want to try to do something to help our NHS to thrive, not just survive, or are we to just wring our hands and complain and let things get worse. All opinions welcome and respected.

But the cost Rivernana who is to meet the cost?

Trisher I didn't mean that people who use food banks should have second hand medicines and supplies. I meant that perhaps a system like food banks for food could be set up for medical supplies to assess what was safe to distribute and charities and other organisations could collect from there.

I also think the "missed appointments" talk is a red herring.

So much real waste by people like hospital managers who are paid to do their job is the real problem.

I have now signed. Thank you OP for putting this up on the forum.

I ahve a friend who worked for 10 years in the NHS and he never stopped talking about all the ways money was wasted.....despite all those bl**dy managers.
also a waste of money

Whilst I agree with many of the points re waste, especially non-attendance at appointments, prescription items, etc, etc, I sometimes feel a little suspicious when these issues are brought up on TV and social media. There is such a thing as the "nudge" agenda, whereby people's opinions are deliberately swayed towards a specific view on a particular subject.

I believe one of the methods used by the "nudge" theory is to draw people's attention to the behaviour and opinions of others in any given situation because most people tend, subconsciously, to adopt social norms. For instance, it was found that if hotels which put up notices asking guests to think of re-using their towels in order to save the environment, it did change people's behaviour. But such a notice was made much more effective by telling them that other guests in the hotel reused their towels. Neither approach was as effective as telling them that other guests in that exact room reused their towels. It seems that people like to feel that their opinions and behaviours are broadly in line with that of other people.

It could be said that if this "nudge" principle is a good thing because it is not dictatorial but it does point people in the right direction - i.e. to be more socially responsible.

But my view is it can be used to manipulate people for less altruistic reasons. On the Jeremy Vine programme this morning, panellists discussed the use of waste within the NHS, with particular reference to non-attendance at appointments. The general feeling was that those who made appointments but didn't attend them should be "fined", or that a patient should pay an amount upfront which would be returned if the appointment was kept, but retained if it was not.

Non-attendance is a fairly significant problem and I expect many people would feel that some sort of measures should be adopted to prevent this happening so regularly.

However, the discussion quickly morphed into the subject of paying a figure of between £10 and £25 for each GP appointment. The figures from a poll were provided, saying that something like 40% of the people asked agreed with this idea. It was just one poll, and viewers will have had no idea how this survey was constructed - who and how many people were asked, how questions were framed, etc, etc. It could be argued that the "nudge" principle was being used to mould public opinion in the direction of seeing payment, on top of general taxation, for certain NHS services as desirable. This could be the foundation for a complete reversal of the whole ethos behind our present health system.