Wearing a white poppy

Well said Bluebelle (I generally find I am in agreement with most of what you say) HOWEVER, .... wouldn't it be boring if we all agreed with one another? I love a good argumentdebate!

I wear a red poppy. My grandfather's fought in WW1, my father in WW2. They were never jingoistic the way they explained WW1 was I now know, historically accurate. They saw WW2 differently, of course. My father was as horrified by the invasion of Iraq as I was.

I won't wear a white poppy, though I understand its history. The red poppy came from the way that blood red poppy grew in the cracks of soil, between the men who lay dying in that war that was to end all wars. I wear the red poppy in commemoration and lest we forget. My dogs have been wearing purple poppies on their collars this week, to commemorate the animals who gave their lives during wars.

I’m not going to say whether I wear a poppy or not or if I do what colour it us. Neither am I going to mention male relatives who served / died in either war - it would be exceptional if people of our generation didn’t have those links. I don’t care at all how anyone chooses to remember or if they don’t. I do care that poppy wearing has become something to argue about or seen as a sign of some sort of moral position. A landlord of a pub yesterday said he wouldn’t serve anyone not wearing a poppy. Tommy Robinson is one of the biggest supporters of poppy wearers going

Oh B** suziewoozie! Still that won't stop me wearing a red poppy (yet)

The point is that someone wearing a poppy of whatever colour is an objective fact. As to why it is being worn, well ......

Wear a white poppy if you want, it really doesn't bother me. I wear my red poppy with pride...and in gratitude for my son returning home safe and sound from his two tours of action, and also for all those families who were not so fortunate, for all those who made the ultimate sacrifice, and for those who did return home, but never to be the same. And a purple poppy for all the animals who died in war...

Oh tedber it’s not about us all being the same, of course we’ve all got a right to be different and have different views that s what makes the world go round it’s about the acceptance of others views without always getting in a ‘I m right you’re wrong’ scenario
Wear a white poppy, a red poppy, a purple poppy, what colour shall we wear to remember all the Muslims, the Sikhs the plucky Ghurkas and other Commonwealth fighters who never get a mention, or wear no poppy at all its an individuals right to make they own decisions without others trying to prove them wrong
Let’s have a new movement in this country called acceptance

Why start this thread in the first place?? Today we remember our war dead with Red Poppies...... they symbolise all the young men who died serving their country. We are proud of them all and are very grateful for the sacrifice they made.

I despair of some of the comments on here .............

Poppy it’s not just this thread - the other two are actually much worse

Oh the irony. The one purporting to support peace is the most bullish of the lot. Ha, ha, Ha, ha, ha.

I started the thread because most people do not know what the white pooppy stands for. Most people do not know about the history of the women who started it or that more civilians die in wars now than serving personnel. And if it is bullish to think these things matter then so be it. No-ne ever said pacifists had to be silent and stay out of things we simply believe things are not worth killing for. And that all deaths matter not just soldiers .

susiewoozie wrings hands in mock despair.

Bluebell ...totally agree with you. Too much setting out personal agenda's along with looking for trouble.

Just want to add that all of the religious groups you mentioned plus a few you didn't were actually represented at the Cenotaph today. All wearing poppies.

We attended the remembrance service here in Kenya, it was held at the military cemetery.

The service was conducted by the Padre and the Local Kenyan Bishop.

They both paid tribute to the civilians who have lost and are still losing their lives.

The British Legion do a marvellous job all over the world, not just in the U.K.

I wear my red poppy with pride

OK here's Wilfred Owen because the last line applies now more than ever.
Dulce et Decorum Est
BY WILFRED OWEN
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

But wearing a red poppy doesn't say that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country, it says that they did die and we who did not die mourn them.

Do you scorn the red poppy because some see it as the glory of dying in war? The flag of our nation (the United Kingdom) is the Union Flag, combining the flags of the component parts. Some bigots tried to use it as a rallying call for their own extremism - but it still represents what it has always done.

(That doesn't mean that I am calling your pacifism extremism, Trisher, but that this thread is another example of throwing away the baby with the bathwater. There is no need for the colour of a symbolic poppy to become a controversial issue )

I haven't made it controversial Elegran unless you think it is controversial to post my views because they don't conform with the accepted norm. And I do think the spirit of remembrance has in many ways been hi-jacked by those who think that Dulce et Decorum est still applies and were worried that it was slipping away. When I was younger the men who marched or stood in silence did so believing that peace was better than war. I think they would be shocked by what the RBL has done and the money they have taken. That doesn't mean by the way that I think that everyone who wears a red poppy has bought into D&D est just that there is a body of people who have and they are using remembrance for their own ends.

I wear a purple poppy

trisher forgive me if you've already covered this but, do you see any difference between WW1 and WW2?
I'm avoiding getting into debate on eg Falkalnds, Vietnam for obvious reasons.

Attempts were made to negotiate with Hitler, rightly so. They failed. His murderous desire to conquer the world continued. The concentration camps need no more to be said, other than the reference to them and the millions who died there.

If there hadn't been a war that led to his regime being defeated, I suspect I wouldn't be sitting in my warm, comfortable home. I'd have been shipped off years ago as some kind of heretic. My autistic grandson wouldn't now be aged 24. My friends and relations who aren't entirely white anglo Saxon wouldn't be here either.
I do understand the history from WW1 to the 1930's people living in uncertain times seek strong leaders. Echoes of our current place in history.

Iam64 I do see differences and I agree that once Hiter had been allowed to gain power war was inevitable. However the story of how and why he came to power and the events surrounding the concentration camps do need to be looked at carefully. There is an idea that Hitler was seen as a good thing by many people in the UK (he was seen by many as the solution to stopping the spread of socialism and communism) and his policies were actively supported. As for the concentration camps it has been proposed that many people knew what was going on but chose to ignore them. Whatever the situation (and we shouldn't forget the way Germany was treated at the end of WW1) the inevitability of war slowly rose. The men who weilded the power were not of course the men sent to fight. I do remember that almost all the men who taught me who had fought in that war were opposed to militarism.
I hope that helps.

Couldn’t agree with you more Bluebell .

For those who are interested - in, I think, 2014 the Quakers produced a paper entitled The New Tide of Militarisation which analysed the methods that are used to normalise the idea of war and present it as something noble.

There were certainly heroic and noble soldiers but war itself is something the human race should be ashamed, not proud, of.

Here is the link for anyone who is interested: quaker-prod.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/store/b34beeeb2b64bfebaea4a969f2bc9410c0bdd3fe341d0f139438f0f4488e

I certainly don't normalise the idea of war or present it as something noble. We should commemorate the heroic and noble soldiers but yes, war is nothing to be proud of. I don't see the commemoration of Remembrance Sunday as glorifying war and don't suppose many others do either.

trisher, as I said I do understand the history that led to the rise of Hitler after WW1. None of the men in my family glorified war, they had direct experience of it. The current wars are horrific and despite our 24 hour news, we actually see little of what is really happening in Syria and any African countries.
No simple fixes but I'd like to start by the UK no longer being involved in selling arms to anyone.

I once heard someone say - they didn't support war but they did support the men and women who fought. Isn't that what Remembrance Day is all about?