Wearing a white poppy

Sunseeker, I think that sums it up perfectly. None of us want war, but surely we should all be incredibly grateful for those who are willing to put themselves at risk - and who have made the ultimate sacrifice - to keep the rest of us safe and protect our freedom?

. The Red Poppy is not glorifying war, it is an outward sign of remembrance of the many who gave their lives.

We only have to read ‘the war poets ‘ to remind us ,not that we need reminding , of the many who died .

Thank you for that link to the Quaker briefing, Eloethan - interesting read.

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Thanks for the link Eleothan the Quakers have my unqualified admiration for their sustained work for peace. They say everything I believe about the scares of militarism.
I think we should all be aware that there are people who actually don't care about death and killing. Aparently one of the designers of the landmine which injured and immobilised rather than killing kept an inactive mine on his desk as a paper weight he was so proud of it.

I think we should all be aware that there are people who actually don't care about death and killing

What an absolutely stupid thing to put on this thread.

I heard Hitler was very fond of the British Quakers.

And as for putting up the Wilfred Owen poem, we've all read it. We all know what the gas did to men.

You are virtue signalling.

If anyone was directly "responsible" for trying to normalise war and make it glamorous, they didn't succeed. I don't think I have ever met anyone who thinks war is either a normal condition or a glamorous one. Ex-military personel and their families are well aware of the sordidness and brutality, and also of how some people treat them as pariahs for participating.

Elegran I have and believe me they don't think in terms of what the things they design or build do. They are totally caught up in their technical know-how and ability to make them more efficient. Some ex-military personnel may be aware of the horrors but I don't think they all are, and I do think there are those in command who regard some people as completely expendable.
Gonegirl if all you can gather from WO's poem is what the gas did to men I think he would probably feel he had failed. The gas is awful but the real horror is that the men who died had been taught when they were children that dying for your country is glorious. If he knew about the increase in school cadet forces he would be turning in his grave.

Virtue signalling - in a nutshell. If we didn't have brave men and women prepared to put their lives on the line for us today as they did in the past, none of us would be free to wear a poppy of any colour.

how did the millions who died in atrocious circumstances allow us to wear a poppy today, of any colour indeed.

I once heard someone say - they didn't support war but they did support the men and women who fought. Isn't that what Remembrance Day is all about?

Yes, sunseeker, it is.

The service is also a heartfelt plea for peace, a remembrance of all those who lost their lives, civilians as well as servicemen and women, remembering those who are still suffering from conflicts around the world and prayers for the future of the world.

Nowhere did I hear it say that war is noble but I think those who fought against fascism, against domination and for freedom of the oppressed, those being starved into submission in WW1 should be remembered and thanked.

DH also wore a purple poppy.

trisher I don't think those men would have been taught any such thing as the last line of the poem. Many were dragged kicking and screaming from their villages, and from their mothers.

I don't like cadet forces for youngsters, but I think most join for the adventure they can get out of it today. I doubt if many of them go on to serve in the forces.

Prefer the Scouts myself.

And the poem is mostly about the mud and the gas.

gonegirl They probably join the cadet force for the companionship of their pals, to look good and "responsible" on their CVs and to enjoy the social aspect of the away camping trips. Dh joined at school, and said it was quite fun, except that he got pneumonia on a camping trip to Nissan huts in Cultibraggan, and ended up in hospital in deepest Perthshire.

Or perhaps in the same spirit that in 1955 I joined a Young Conservatives group (shock horror!) in Paulsgrove, Portsmouth (Pompey dwellers will recognise how typically Tory that wasn't) Almost every one of us skipped anything vaguely political, and only turned up for the Saturday night record hops, held in a tin-roofed temporary church in what was otherwise a desert for teenagers.

(to Elegran)

The shock was about the grandson. Not the teenage hops. They sound fine.

DH! Not GS. Sorry.

Were children taught it was glory to die for their country in the 19th century ?

I agree about the social aspects Elegran the problem is that while all other youth services have been cut the cadet service has had increased funding. Over 400 new cadet units being opened since 2015. If there were other youth services which were funded I wouldn't mind so much.

War is not an abstract concept for my family - we have experienced first hand the trauma and horror of losing a loved one to an IED and we have also seen the toll paid by civilians; my Afghan foster sons' graphic depiction of daily life in a war zone is sobering.

I campaign against the arms trade and support the PPU by wearing a white 'peace' poppy in September. I believe that war or armed conflict should only ever be a last resort.

In November I wear a red poppy and make a donation to the RBL, in grateful thanks for the help they gave at the inquest of my son-in-law. I abhor any links the RBL has with the arms trade, but nevertheless acknowledge the sterling work they do with forces and ex-forces personnel.

I joined the Young Farmers Club, certainly not because I had any interesting in farming

I agree it is worrying that the cadet forces are funded by the government. I didn't know that. I don't like that. Not at all.

The Boy Scout movement is flourishing.

Just make sure your grandkids go there. Adventure and fun, with no militarism.

It looks like there is money available for other youth organisations