To Believe the British Girl in Cyprus Version of Events

Reports about men who have been falsely accused of rape often suggest that those accusations have wrecked their lives, and when they write about it the appear cowed by the experience. On the other hand, these men were met by friends and family on their return to Israel with Champagne and they vocalised their assertions "The British woman is a whore" whilst that doesn't prove their guilt, it does imply a complete lack of empathy and horrible arrogance towards the woman and what of their parents that met them at Ben Gurion Airport. Champagne there is a still a cloud hanging over the matter, their sons have hardly covered themselves with glory, just by admitting they filmed the incident, speaking as a mother of sons, I'd be deeply ashamed of any son of mine who even stood by whilst it was all going on.

Swabs were taken, Baggs and a medical examination undertaken which found injuries consistent with rape.. Presumably these were undertaken by independent forensic and medical examiners whom the judge dismissed as unreliable witnesses.

Forensic examination found semen from, I believe, three of the other men, but lack of semen does not prove that intercourse did not take place whether forcibly or not.

That's the police, and the authorities. David said where the woman had been deliberately negligent.

Such as? I am not being deliberately obtuse. I just cant imagine what it means in a rape case.

Such as not taking swabs.
Such as not letting the victim/accused have access to legal advice.
Such as not looking carefully at all the evidence.

Stuff like that.

I suppose that's my concern with those kind of phrases. I dont think being drunk means you are negligent.

There is probably more to this case and the court procedure than it being merely a useless, misogynistic and very irascible minor judge presiding over something out of his realm of experience.
As has been pointed out, Cyprus is anxious to cultivate relations with Israel and these men could have influential relatives.

It stinks.

pining pinning

I can see in some rape cases the lines are extremely blurred especially when a lot of drink has been consumed and often it comes down to a "he said/she said" scenario and of course on occasions the accuser has lied. I imagine "negligent in a rape case" is where the woman has rendered herself through the amount of alcohol/drugs consumed vulnerable.

In this particular case, as I understand, the young woman was in bed with the young man having consensual sex, unbeknown to her he had arranged for his friends to burst in on them and then take it turns to rape her, he sat on her chest thus pining her down, whilst some of the 12, possibly not all did that. They then filmed it on their phones. What I'm not sure about, is whether that footage was used as admissible evidence. I think the prosecution tried to build a case that she was complicit in the group orgy and was merely pissed off because it was filmed and that is why she claimed she had been raped. I also read that in the aftermath she was examined and her injuries were consistent with those of a rape victim. It's hard to understand why all the men were allowed to return home, maybe it's hearsay but it has been mooted that some of the parents of the accused rapists have influence in high places.

Such as? I am not being deliberately obtuse. I just cant imagine what it means in a rape case.

i.e. that something that should have been done was not done. Deliberately.

What does deliberately negligent mean in a rape case?

Same as it means in any case, I imagine.

I think sunseeker and davidhs both agree with the idea of innocence until guilt is proven. The only difference appears to be that in this case one seems to assume the victim is innocent and the other is not making a judgment because the accused might also be innocent — keeping an open mind, in other words which, for justice' sake, one has to.

What does deliberately negligent mean in a rape case?

Sunseeker.

In the UK there has to be considerable evidence against a suspect before a case gets to court. A Juror would sit, not knowing anything about the case in advance other than the police have charged him with an offence.
In a rape case my sympathy would be with the alleged victim, that does not mean that I assume the man is guilty, there are circumstances that the woman has been deliberately negligent or vexatious that I would vote innocent
There are biased posts on this site that assume the woman is always telling the truth, that is far from my experience of life

Davidhs said

"Actually Trisher I’ve never called to jury duty, if I had I would take a lot of convincing that the accused was innocent because the CPS don’t promote spurious cases"

This shows how biased you would be as a juror as you would automatically assume the accused was guilty. Remember Innocent until PROVED guilty?

Lawyers in both countries are saying she must be pardoned. They've also "criticised the conduct" of the trial and said it should never have gone ahead.

A human rights lawyer has said she has a strong case for an appeal and that the trouble with a pardon is that you have to admit you did something that needs pardonning.

I don't think the truth will be uncovered.

The UK government will intervene and the Cypriot government will acquiesce.

I believe the girl has already spent some time in custody. She's on bail pending sentencing (I think) so any time she's spent in custody already will count towards her sentence, which I think could be a maximum of 24 months.

I guess she'll come back to the UK to complete her sentence, which will probably be non-custodial.

The boys may be charged, but I doubt it'd go any further due to lack of evidence.

So a compromise. Imho.

Well that's alright then, only a few lads having a prank. Really ?

We still only have information from the media, I agree it seems on the face of it that the Cypriot justice system leaves a lot to be desired. Lets hope the truth is uncovered.

I think I am coming round to that viewpoint abour juries trisher. I dont think the jury system works at all for women with regard to sexual assault. But would judges be any better. I dont know the answer but know that the current system is a disaster for women. The recent judgements with regard to the rough sex defence in the case of murders have also been terrifying.

OMG Galaxy what's that saying about enemy and friends????
It shows we can unite as women about some things!
Davidhs where did I say all juries were biased? I said you were which is slightly different.
I would like o see a higher conviction rate for rape and I would like to see a judicial system which does not punish women for their lifestyles.
And as a matter of fact there is some research which thinks rape should be matter for judges www.hud.ac.uk/news/2018/september/rape-case-jury-bias/

Actually Trisher I’ve never called to jury duty, if I had I would take a lot of convincing that the accused was innocent because the CPS don’t promote spurious cases.

For you to say the juries are always biased is outrageous, if the evidence isn’t there there is no conviction, people like you in the police withhold evidence, you are biased, you want every accused man jailed.

I’m open minded I want rapists jailed but of they’re falsely accused freed

trisher today 15:29:45

Apparently the medical experts who examined the girl and did find evidence were dismissed by this judge as 'unreliable'.

The fact he kept putting off the case by hearing other, petty, cases shows the contempt he has for this girl
And it would seem, for justice.

trisher meh. Just words on a forum. Maybe a bit heated.

Glad you agree that there's room for all opinions on here, galaxy.

Crikey trisher are we agreeing on something

Where did I say he wasn't entitled to his opinion? By the same token I am entitled to express my views on those words. Thats the way free speech works.