Dolls for boys and cars for girls

There was a recent programme on television where they gathers 3 year old boys and girls together to see what toys they favoured without encouragement from anyone - boys played with cars and trucks, girls played with dolls and prams. I didn't buy dolls for my daughters when they were little but more gender neutral toys, however, they still went straight to the dolls when they played in friends houses.

Gender roles are both a mix of nature and nurture which is obvious when you think about it. Cars aren’t”natural” - they are created by humans, theres no biological reason for cars being labelled “male”- it’s a cultural phenomenon. Ditto the colour pink- it has been culturally designated as female- other cultures don’t have that colour distinction. Children learn gender roles from a very young age from the world around them. The monkey study was a very small scale study and it would be unwise to extrapolate- how many male monkeys drive cars? Another experiment showed that when a baby boy was dressed in pink the language and toys offered by strangers was different from when he was dressed in blue, implying subtle and not so subtle differences in treatment start from the word go.

* grannyactivist* do you know that your grandchildren would like the toys you are going to buy them? or are you just going to buy what you think is right these days
In my experience girls still prefer girly stuff and boys like boy stuff,
If not they might be very disappointed in what they get
I would never buy cars etc, for a girl, unless she asked for them, and especially wouldn't buy a boy a doll, unless he asked for one
I think there is too much emphasis on the gender neutral ideas these day
It is getting out of control

HettyMaud, I agree (with two sons and two daughters) that there may be slight inborn gender differences. The big problem is that we exaggerate them with our expectations and behaviour towards children.

Chestnut, I saw it as the male monkeys rejecting the 'mother' role by choosing the trucks and cars - didn't you?

‘No, hang on...’

I have a son and a daughter. Neither were interested in the other one’s toys. I just can’t understand why so many people can’t accept the general differences between the sexes. Having one of each taught me it isn’t what you show them. It’s how they are.

New laws came in earlier in the year which banned adverts which perpetuated gender stereotypes (and not before time). I’m not sure if the examples you gave fall under that legislation but worth contacting the Advertising Standards Authority perhaps?

It’s so depressing and frustrating that in 2020 such stereotypes still exist - I suppose it just goes to show how ingrained it is into our way of thinking that we just accept it until we catch ourselves and think not, hang on a minute...’.

Interesting article about adverts which have been banned recently and the moves that the ASA are now making - but obviously much progress still to be made www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51032631

I can remember my grandson looking through a toy catalogue at the age of about four and being most indignant that it had a boy section and a girl section and the buggys where in the girls section.

The thing is kids aren’t ( generally) gender neutral . I have no issue with boys with dollies and girls with cars but IF girls want to play with dollies ....why not?

Thats not the point though is it?
The point is that dollies and prams and toy cots used to come in a full range of colours. Now 90% of them are pink! Even for girls who love dollies its not very inspiring having a room full of mainly just one colour toys!

('Oh, she's so beautiful', 'He's a real bruiser'.)

That made me smile, Hetty58

My son was an exquisite baby. Not boasting here. He was just a beautiful baby.

My youngest daughter emerged and she was my 'real bruiser'

People commented on my son, saying he should be in Mothercare brochures and my poor daughter was merely smiled at.

Oh and I'm not sure how you can say that the monkeys had learned behaviour from their elders

The male in the animal world tends to be dominant and more aggressive. The females are less aggressive. Except of course when their young are threatened.

Hetty58: I thought that young monkeys would surely have keenly observed the culture and roles of their elders. They had already learned the male and female modes of behaviour.
I don't think the male monkeys would have any prior experience of toy trucks and cars! Yet they chose them. Both male and female monkeys had the choice of what to play with. Are you saying that they had no choice just because they had witnessed the behaviour of other monkeys?

Oopsminty, I saw that programme with the toys and monkeys too. I didn't conclude that there are many inborn male/female differences, though.

I thought that young monkeys would surely have keenly observed the culture and roles of their elders. They had already learned the male and female modes of behaviour.

Similarly, boys and girls watch the adults around them, people in general and on films, TV etc. From babyhood to pre-school age, what do they tend to see? A lot of male doctors, female nurses, women looking after children, male action heroes etc.

Having two sons and two daughters I soon noticed the different way other adults approached, treated and influenced them. ('Oh, she's so beautiful', 'He's a real bruiser'.)

We reinforce our culture in the young without even being aware of it. Even the two year old boys at playgroup soon made guns out of Duplo, the girls played mum in the playhouse.

Not genetic, inbuilt differences - but our unthinking conditioning of them.

No beauty salons, that’s discrimination lol ?( many boys like beauty salons , many wear more hair products than the wee lasses ?)

I remember playing cowboys and indians as a child and was very disappointed that I wasn't allowed to have a toy gun! I played with my dolls, but only adventure games, with them abseiling off my bed etc.

DGD (now 8) is a whiz at Lego and started putting things together, using the instructions and without help, at a much younger age than I expected. Admittedly I buy her the Friends Lego which is more girly, but only the vet/pony/adventurous ones and not the ones that involve beauty salons!

I must have been one of the lucky ones, I had a doll & betabuilder ( pre-Lego) even had green slates for the roof ?

In the 70's when my first daughter was a little one, like many friends I tried not to only give toys traditionally associated with girls. By 12 months she was cuddling a toy in a tea towel, putting the toy in her brick trolley and pushing it around saying "baby". Meanwhile, her male cousins were digging up worms and making guns out of cardboard - their mum of course wouldn't buy them guns.
I wouldn't stop children following their dreams so far as toys go. I just wish it could be slightly less pink and blue prescriptive. There's considerable research concluding girls begin to lose confidence around age 8. Its hard not to look at the way boys and girls are subliminally directed. Girls still to be nurses, boys doctors and so on. Body image affects girls and boys but girls to a disproportionate degree.
It's life folks - no easy black and white solutions.

I saw a documentary some time ago about monkeys being presented with 'girl' and 'boy' toys

The male monkeys tended to play with the trucks and cars

Don't think they've been conditioned

This clip also shows a similar experiment

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-29418230/monkey-test-shows-gender-choices

Small children will happily play with whatever toy they fancy. Despite our individual efforts to buy a range of age appropriate, non gender focused toys, there comes a time when they're influenced by friends at school and may suddenly prefer fluffy pink or macho items - much to our dismay.

40 years ago my small son chose a doll and carefully looked after it, asked me to make a bed and clothes for it etc. A few years later, at about age six, he began to keep it it secretly in a hall cupboard. I assume that a friend said something.

My girls, being younger than the boys, had instant access to all the usual boy's playthings - with no need to hide them!

There was a programme on TV where they experimented by leaving toys out for monkeys to play with (can't remember which type of monkey). These items were left in an open space on the grass so the environment was natural. Guess what....the female monkeys played with the dolls and the male monkeys with the trucks and racing cars.

Barmeyoldbat your comment, I think children will decide themselves what they want to play with but they must first have access to them, is spot on.

My sons and daughters all had equal access to the same range of toys.

One of my girls loved meccano, lego, cars and anything she could build or experiment with. She became a nurse, but has maintained a strong interest in the sciences and her four year old daughter is the same.

One of my sons loved to wear pink (I actually had to dye T-shirts for him because I couldn't buy them!), he was incredibly adventurous (still is) and loved to create things; origami, pottery, knitting. His older brother had a doll and a pushchair and played being 'daddy' all the time as a toddler and at infant school - an interest he never lost and he is now a brilliant hands-on daddy.

The point is not that everything is gender neutral for the sake of it, but that boys can see that it's 'normal' to play with dolls if they want to and it's also 'normal' for girls to enjoy playing with cars or doing science experiments, if they choose to.

I've seen my grandson using a Barbie doll as a gun, when he was little.

Both boys had pushchairs and baby dolls, but they weren't at all interested.

Yes SueD, my son use to fill his sister's dolls pram with stones and bricks and use it a dumper truck.

Even grown women seem to like pink unicorns, princess t shirts and so on..

I think as long as children have access to all kinds of toys it doesn’t really matter. My son who is a psychologist has observed the children playing with dolls and prams at his children’s nursery. The girls tend to play in the traditional manner with them, while boys evict the dolls, install vehicles and proceed to hare around at 90mph having car and train crashes with multiple pile-ups.

I also this weekend read an article about a teddy bear hospital. They can almost always tell which bear has been owned by a girl and which has been owned by a boy. The girls’ teddies tend to have worn faces and chests from being kissed and stroked, while boys’ teddies have worn/missing ears and limbs from being dragged around.

I do agree that the ‘pinkification’ of stuff has gone too far, though.