Do we still set higher standards for women?

I can help if you want grandad. You made some very sweeping statements about the lack of campaigns for womens rights in the last 50 years or so. I pointed out the numerous campaigns run by women for women. There was another one this morning as it happens on the today programme, a woman who has campaigned ceaselessly, against considerable opposition, to expose the culture of sexual harassment at Save the Children. To tell women that nothing has happened in the field of womens rights when you do not know as much about it as the women on this thread is patronising. It's ok to admit you dont know things, there are many many subjects I know very little about.

Callistemon, I have stated that I was inaccurate in stating that Formby had no qualifications on leaving her education. So, what do you want to do "get the noose out". ?

The above in no way, in my view, can detract from her very base career beginning to becoming the most influential person in Britains seven million-strong Labour Movement.

She has also been one of the strongest advocates of women's equality throughout her career.

For those interested here is a link to Formby's statement on women's rights and equality to the Labour list on international women's day 2018.

Link begins here:-

labourlist.org/2018/03/jennie-formby-we-must-do-better-for-women/

Grandad I think that even if Jennie Formby just scraped her results, they were still a respectable set of examination passes.
She could have gone to university but chose not to, a fair enough decision as many people did not choose that route.

Having a degree or even a PhD doesn't guarantee success, it's drive and ambition which play a part too.

I never thought I'd be defending her but I like to be fair!!

Summer love, can you post examples of where I have patronized and "talked down" to women in this thread rather than yourself posting sweeping generalised comments?

Shockingly, it is not just men who are prejudiced against women.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/mar/05/nine-out-of-10-people-found-to-be-biased-against-women

janipat, what has been alleged in this thread has been that Len McCluskey in his role as General Secretary of the Unite Union assisted Jenny Formby in her career progress because she became intimately involved with him.

The above is a ridiculous statement as Jenny Formby worked in the southwest region of Unite while McCluskey was working in a Northern region in a role way below that of General Secretary.

Formby's early progression would have been by election and appointment by the lay regional committee in the Southwest region.

Through that progression, Formby became Unites national political officer by which she was attached to their central office in London. Formby and McCluskey then became partners for approximately four years I believe and during that time a son was born out of that partnership.

From her position as Unites National Political Officer, she was elected by the Labour Party National Executive Committee to the post of General Secretary of the whole Labour movement, a committee that Len McCluskey has no seat on.

The above I believe demonstrates comprehensively that McCluskey could not and did not in any way assist Formby to her top positions.

Therefore to state that Jenny Formby gained her present position by casually sleeping with her male working superiors is wrong and totally disgusting especially coming from a woman on a forum dominated by women and should be comprehensively condemned by all.

I’ll agree with the patronizing comments.

You’ve completely talked down to many women here granddad

10 O level passes at grades sufficient to support going on to pass 3 A levels, is not insignificant (regardless that we don't know her eventual grades). There would be a variety of career openings available to pursue, including those requiring further study. As she went from office work to a manual post (I'm assuming you're correct here, I haven't researched) the only assumption to be made is that she wasn't settled in what she wanted to do.
I may have skimmed posts, but didn't take it she'd slept her way up, just that she'd had an intimate relationship with someone who was in a position to aid her advancement (note, not the reason for the intimate relationship). It's what family's often do isn't it, aid their own where they can?

That made me laugh varian.

janipat, there is much I can agree with in your post @18:36 today. In that, I believe that many men who were called into National Service or volunteered for armed service were guaranteed their jobs by their employers should they return.

However, any protest however futile when justified is always worth the effort, and that in 1945 the nation did not witness.

Grandad is one of a minority of male GNetters. Those of us on the liberal or left part of the political spectrum tend to defend minorities, but minorities are not always right.

I see you posted an answer 10 seconds before my post.

Grandad The women knew that protest was futile, and they were actually told it was their patriotic duty to relinquish their jobs. Of course back then, if they protested they'd just be sacked anyway.
No comment on Jennie Formby leaving school with virtually no qualifications?

I see my name being mentioned in regard to the qualifications attained by Jenny Formby within her education, and in that, I apologize for not replying earlier as I have been working in the office since 07:00 this morning.

However, as has been stated Formby did gain ten O levels and three A levels on leaving her education. No one is aware, I believe, of what grades Jenny Formby achieved within those results, but it must be obvious to all that they did not enhance her opportunities in obtaining employment. In regard to that, Formby started her working life in the office of a Bookmaker before moving on to manually work as a shunter in a fuel distribution terminal.

The most salient point in Formby's working career is that from that very basic employment beginning she has progressed, mainly by way of gaining peoples confidence in elections, to achieve the most prominent and influential position in Britains near seven million person strong Labour movement by becoming its General Secretary.

It would seem that some on this thread wish "to call me out" for stating that Formby attained no educational qualifications, in which they are perfectly correct to do so. However, it has also been alleged in this thread (not for the first time) by one forum member that Jenny Formby attained at least part of her career progress by "jumping into bed" with her male workplace superior.

The above I find a disgusting remark to make against any woman especially when made by another woman on a forum whose membership is dominated by women. However, there would seem to be only one post "calling out" the forum member who made the above allegation, and none from the forum members who are calling me out for a genuine mistake.

In short, one was a genuine mistake made by a male member of this forum, while the second was a bitter totally horrendous unfounded allegation made by a female member of this forum to which no condemnation is forthcoming from those who wish to denounce the first.

I believe that the above when placed in front of any person with a neutral view on this matter, the foregoing may well appear as the condemnation of gender in preference to censure of substance in regard to the totally disgraceful allegations made by a female forum member in this thread.

Are you now the returning ballot officer for this forum then. GagaJo

I think the women are in agreement Granddad1943. Patronising, to boot.

I believe it is a woman in this thread that requires to do some explaining.

Oh goody.

Mansplaining on how women should be doing more.

Chewbacca, regarding your post @08:44 today, you state in its content that my post of the 04/05/20 @21:58 demonstrated my overall ignorance and misogyny by way of its content and the views I expressed. So, let us look once again at what I did state in that post.

In regard to the employment situation at the close of the second world war (1945), I stated, and I Quote:-

[ If forum members think back, throughout the second world war women carried out all the occupations normally worked by men while they were away in armed service. In truth, Britain was almost entirely maintained as a working entity by women.

At the conclusion of that war, all those occupations were handed back to those returning men without any protest whatsoever by the women who had held those jobs throughout the war years.] End Quote.

Chewbacca, In response to the above, you stated in your above referred to post, and I again Quote:-

[ How can you not know that, at the end of WW2, when men returned to the UK to take up their positions in the factories and shops that they'd left behind; women were forced out of those roles that they had so ably occupied throughout the war. Those women were told to get back to their homes and kitchens, look after their menfolk and children and leave the jobs for the men. And they did. It caused depression and mental ill health for millions of women who, for the first time ever, had had a taste of independence and financial freedom.] End Quote.

In regard to the above, I completely agree with you Chewbacca on the repercussions of handing back those occupations undoubtedly had on very many women at that time. However, the above factor was not in any way the substance or reference of my post. As can be witnessed in my copied down section of that post, I purely spoke on the lack of protest made by women in regard to handing over their employment at that time.

Therefore, Chewbacca I very much fail to see how you can deduce I am in ignorance in regard to a subject or factor that I had not even spoken on. Further to that, to deduce there is misogyny in that same post is without doubt completely disgusting, and I invite you to explain further how you came to such a ridiculous conclusion.

Yes see the percentage of nurse anesthetist (41%are male).

You're missing my point David. Many women do not feel a 'draw' to being a carer. It is a role that has been assigned to women because it is low status.

If nursing SUDDENLY became regarded as high status, highly skilled and was highly paid, there would be a sudden influx of men.

Its like pulling teeth. Both men and women choose to have children. Yet women are the ones impacted by this, partly due to the attitudes you are expressing.

Chewbacca well said!
Some women probably were happy to step back to home responsibilities after the war, but even they didn't do it from choice, they were ordered to give up their jobs for the returning men. I knew of several women in my wider family who really resented having to give up the higher paid work they had been doing during the war, but of necessity needed to earn and so were forced to take badly paid menial work.
I doubt you'll get grandad to retract, he rarely corrects or acknowledges his inaccurate information. His absence of acknowledging how totally wrong he was about Jennie Formby on leaving school with virtually no qualifications whatsoever says it all. She actually left school with 10 O levels and 3 A levels.

Gagajo
A few men have the temperament to be carers, from what I see maybe 5% of nurses or care assistants are male, yet you insist that they are equal, that is not the reality and never will be.

Women make their career choices, there was a large dispute locally where women were demanding equal pay for work of the same value. The comparison was made that Carers were equal value to Bin Men who earned substantially more. I’m not sure how many women were taken on to work the bins, my guess is that warm indoor work was more appealing despite lower wages.
At the end of the day we all choose the best job that suits our lifestyle and if you decide to have children that affects your lifestyle and any relationship you might have, so don’t expect to carry on as before

On Friday I am singing in a pop up choir to celebrate International Women's Day. One of the things we will be highlighting and demonstrating about is the way all safety testing is done on male body models. As Grandad1943 has some health and safety experience perhaps he could help explain why this is so. (The only reason I can think of is that men design the tests). As far as women giving up work easily after WW2 I can tell you categorically that was not true for most working class women. They went back to the kitchen unwillingly. But the government cut all the day nursery funding and shut down the provision so there was no way they could work with small children. They still went back into work when their children started school. Who do you imagine staffed the laundries, the shops, the cafes and cleaned the offices and factories where men worked? Of course they weren't permitted the well paid qualified jobs- no apprenticeships for women- so they took what they could get. It's a middle class myth that married women never worked.