It’s only lately that it’s really become an issue at all - we’ve always made it clear that we’re very happy to help with whatever, as long as we’re here, which until lately was often not the case. They are not taking advantage - it’s just that falls have lately become more frequent.
They are always incredibly apologetic for bothering us and so grateful.
I know some people do take the P and shamelessly use neighbours, but that honestly is not the case here.
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AIBU
To think neighbour was right out of order. Sorry, very long!
(129 Posts)We have some very frail, very elderly neighbours who we’ve known for many years - a lovely and formerly glamorous couple, so it’s doubly sad to see them like this.
Over recent years we’ve told them repeatedly to ring us if they need any help, but lately it’s become more frequent. He has a lot of mobility difficulties now and falling for both of them has become more frequent.
Both are unable to help the other get up, so we’ve been called on twice very recently to help, with that and other things. Before anyone says it, if there’s any question that they’re hurt we call an ambulance but most often it’s not the case, so since they’re both very light, dh has always been able to manage.
Now of course there the virus worry about seeing them - not so much from them, since they don’t go out, but because they regularly have carers in. Dh went yesterday (with gloves and mask) to help after another fall, but because the wife evidently feels bad about asking us (as she’s said so many times) she also called on another neighbour who has rarely helped before, to assist.
That neighbour, however, asked dh to come and help.
After the necessary help had been given, one of the couple phoned their son, who lives not too far away and does visit fairly often.
This other neighbour insisted on speaking to him, and right in front of the elderly couple told him in very forthright tones that it was high time they were both in a home. She then said the same to the couple, in similarly blunt tones. (All related to me later by dh.)
Should add that both have their marbles intact, and the son has often urged them to move a lot closer to him, but they have never wanted to. And TBH given their ages and states of health, I can’t see how it’d be managed now, not to mention that such a change and general disruption would probably be the beginning of the end for them. I don’t think an actual care home has ever been suggested, though.
I really did think the neighbour was right out of order to say such a thing in front of - and directly to - the couple, who were obviously distressed anyway. If she’d wanted to speak to the son and say that, she could have done so later, in private - we have his number. She’s obviously a very brisk, no-nonsense type who doesn’t mince words, but to me it was tactless and insensitive.
At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, unless there’s really no alternative, who on earth is going to be putting anyone in a care home anyway - even if they’re willing to go? Not to mention that you can’t ‘put’ anyone with mental capacity if they don’t choose to go.
Maybe I’m BU but the lack of sensitivity to a lovely couple really bothered me. The ‘forthright’ neighbour has not known the couple nearly as long as we have, so presumably just thinks of them as pathetic oldies who need to be firmly told what’s good for them, rather than the smart, active people we knew before.
Likewise this neighbour is using their neighbours as a careline/warden substitute.
And wants more than just the OP to be on call to them.
That is not okay unless there is some sort of agreement.
A one off emergency, yes. An ongoing safety net: no!
We had a neighbour decline a rehab bed and interim carers based on the assumption we would provide care (because we had helped with calling the ambulance).
We work full time there was no way we would have committed to that as even if we wanted to we just werent there during the day.
We ended up having to lose our temper to get the point across: social services were convinced we were the carers (not just neighbours who helped in a crisis) and insisted we should be arranging access for mobility adjustments etc. We had no key or contact number for next of kin. Eventually the only way social services would accept that we werent going to provide care was for us to insist that we wouldnt provide any type of help. At all. Only then did they believe that we were not a substitute for rehab or interim care. And even then they implied that we were unkind for "withdrawing" care (we were never carers!) as their client had told them they didnt want strangers in the house but were happy to have us coming in.
Sometimes you do have to be blunt. Unkind even. But realistically we could NOT be relied on to provide that sort of service as we were out and at work 5 days a week!
They may well have expressed it tactfully previously. The OP doesnt know what previous discussions were had.
Its not fair to say "just dont help if you dont like it" because they are being called mid crisis so of course they'll help.
The problem is that in between crises, decisions are made based on the assumption that they can be called on next time. And that isnt fair. This is a recurrant issue. A long term set up. If its based on having neighbours on call then they should be involved in the decision.
I gasped out loud when you relayed what the neighbour said to them! Totally out of order and SO cruel. As though they’re barely human and can’t understand what’s being said. You and your husband have been so good to them but at the end of the day it is up to the son to come up with something. Very difficult situation. My heart goes out to them and also to you for being such good neighbours and being put in such a dilemma.
I think we all have the right to express our opinions.
Its best if done tactfully though. However, that is a metric that is different for all of us.
I got the impression that Witzend was concerned, not so much withe sentiments but, the way they were delivered. Also, the person in question did not appear to have been very involved in the elderly couple’s situation so did not really have the right to express that opinion in front of someone who had definitely been closely involved and knew more about them.
I'd be thanking my stars that my parents were nowhere near a care home and would only be worried in case some interfering busybody called an ambulance. I see no evidence of good intentions at all - she has been rude to three people for no reason.
If the so and his parents want to rely on neighbours, they need to expect that those neighbours are not always going to be available. She is not a nosy interfering busybody if she is being called on to help. We do not know how often she has been called.
I think she could have been more tactful, but I think going behind their backs to the son would have been much worse. I actually respect that she said it to their faces.
It this family wants to avoid care homes, they need to set up something more permanent. They shouldn’t be relying on the kindness of neighbours. This woman was kind to go over and help.
Tactless probably but something needed to be said.
I think that your neighbour was right, as we would so love to say it ourselves. We have had six old folks to deal with, from over a hundred miles away and we are not Spring chickens.
None of them made any provision for their old age. They lived in totally unsuitable houses and slowly deteriorated. ( them and the house)
We would arrive at my MILs (94) not knowing what we would find. We had tried installing Carers and they lasted a day. When eventually she died we were left to clean up the mess. It took two months as her idea of decluttering meant buying more stuff.
The last one is 95, we travel up and down the motorway and it is very tiring and stressful. His house is a tip. We will clear the mess up. We can’t de clutter now as he wants to cling on to everything. His wife my Step MIL died at 96. They have all been on Planet Zog, thinking death wont happen to them.
I am going to go into a nice nursing home. I don’t want my children using up their lives looking after us and suffering as we have done.
Before we get criticised as being hard hearted, we spent hours and hours travelling from our home to theirs, cooking cleaning, gardening , ( M(89) F, (96) Step Father in law, (86) StepMother in law (. 96) Mil (94) Father in law at 95 is still alive. He is the last one. This situation started 12 years ago.
My advice is de clutter, write a will and plan your funeral, and move when you can, or someone else will move you.
You were definitely not being unreasonable! This other neighbor was hurtful, insensitive and uncaring. I guess she thinks such frailty is beneath her, because unlike the rest of us, she's going to live forever.
On the other hand, you and your DH seem like very kind, compassionate people. This elderly couple is lucky to have you as neighbors and you can feel very good about that.
Perhaps their son could look into a more viable solutions to make sure they're safer while living at home. Some minor things such as retrofitting the bath and hallways with safety bars and rails to major things such as installing a chairlift, walk in bathtub, etc. ..... a full time, live-in carer perhaps?
who the @!** does she think she is? What is the son supposed to do at the moment? If I were him I'd be thanking my stars that my parents were nowhere near a care home and would only be worried in case some interfering busybody called an ambulance. I see no evidence of good intentions at all - she has been rude to three people for no reason. If she doesn't want to help stay away - she was invited in for one reason and it wasn't to give unwanted opinions based on no expertise or knowledge either of the specific situation or general requirements.
notanan
I agree with you. For myself, my big issue is with how the neighbour presented her concerns. I don't think she's inherently wrong, but I think there was a better way of discussing it.
I do agree with you that it's unfair to expect that informal support will be available constantly. The reality is that a person, if they're cognitively intact, has the right to live at risk. BUT they have to understand that this doesn't mean that everyone else is required to drop everything if they have an issue.
Its a recurrant issue:
family/neighbours/partners say they can no longer cope with the informal care they are called on to do
but the individual refuses formal care. and it is deemed their right to do so.
but that isnt fair when their decision forces others to be unwilling carers
I think its actually not just their decision when that decision burdens others who werent involved in the decision IYKWIM
When people refuse formal care but then expect informal care, their decision affects others, and those others are then entitled to express how they feel about it.
The problem is that their decision assumes ongoing help from neighbours.
I would be happy to help if it was sporadic but if its an ongoing regular thing it needs a more formal arrangement not just assumption of ongoing neighbour good will where you are providing a service for free that usually costs.
I do sort of agree with the neighbour. If they dont want to go into assisted living they do need to offer to pay you all for being constantly on call. And ask in advance if people are willing to be their "wardens" rather than just calling on you all in the moment when you cant really say no.
Many years ago I was in a similar situation with my next door neighbour, a charming elderly lady who simply couldn’t manage to live independently. I helped where I could but I had 2 young children who often had to come with me when I was trying to help her. I knew she wanted to remain at home and would never mentioned to her that it was getting too much for me. However I found her son’s number and called him from my house suggesting that they consider a different plan. They agreed and soon after she was moved to a care home. This was for her safety.
As long as you don’t mind helping your neighbours, and I am sure you don’t, then have a quiet word with them, emphasising that there is no need to involve the other neighbour again.
It sounds very distressing...what a horrible person.
Oh dear lots of falls not a good sign.need to know why are they falling all the time. Professional help and advice needed asap!
You are not being unreasonable. Whilst the other neighbour may well have a point, surely if the couple have carers they will be continually assessed for their needs and this may well throw up care home needs and she didn't need to be so blatant about her own thoughts. Do you let the son know when they have needed assistance? Perhaps a chat with the couple suggesting he should be informed would be of benefit to all. The son may not know exactly what is going on with his parents. Any adaptations that can be made to the house to provide a bit more safety or even a review of any medication just in case that is causing the falling. You are a good neighbour, they are fortunate to have you.
I think the son needs to be made aware of the increasing frequency of the falls.
Oh dear it sounds like she was really put out for having to help. The problem lies who is arround to help this couple if they do fall again. If it's the same lady then she will be putting in her views again and causing more ill feeling.
I think although she is brusque there does seem to be an underlining problem who is on close hand. I mean is your DH prepared to help all the time in these circumstances it is a shame they didn't move nearer the son.
Witzend - at the very least they need an alarm service so that they can press the button and get some help via the call handlers, who may then possibly call you if you agree to have your number given out, but they should be either sending someone out (depends on your area I think?) or calling an ambulance if they are on the floor and your role should really be just 'making them comfortable' when they are down - not picking them up!
It is lovely that you are prepared to do this but your are putting yourselves at risk too - I think that you should have a private chat with the son who can get this at least set up, and get them a 'Needs Assessment' from Adult Services at the local Council - sounds as though the carers coming in need to be increased ....
Your other neighbour sounds horrid! But she is half right, something needs done - good luck!
My Uncle was in this position and kept falling - he pressed his pendant and the 2 people on call overnight came with some 'kit' to help him to his feet - it was a good service
I guess that something needed to be said but probably not in the way it was. This is a conversation that does need to be talked about but by the family...
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