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AIBU

To think neighbour was right out of order. Sorry, very long!

(129 Posts)
Witzend Thu 07-May-20 10:07:59

We have some very frail, very elderly neighbours who we’ve known for many years - a lovely and formerly glamorous couple, so it’s doubly sad to see them like this.

Over recent years we’ve told them repeatedly to ring us if they need any help, but lately it’s become more frequent. He has a lot of mobility difficulties now and falling for both of them has become more frequent.

Both are unable to help the other get up, so we’ve been called on twice very recently to help, with that and other things. Before anyone says it, if there’s any question that they’re hurt we call an ambulance but most often it’s not the case, so since they’re both very light, dh has always been able to manage.

Now of course there the virus worry about seeing them - not so much from them, since they don’t go out, but because they regularly have carers in. Dh went yesterday (with gloves and mask) to help after another fall, but because the wife evidently feels bad about asking us (as she’s said so many times) she also called on another neighbour who has rarely helped before, to assist.
That neighbour, however, asked dh to come and help.

After the necessary help had been given, one of the couple phoned their son, who lives not too far away and does visit fairly often.

This other neighbour insisted on speaking to him, and right in front of the elderly couple told him in very forthright tones that it was high time they were both in a home. She then said the same to the couple, in similarly blunt tones. (All related to me later by dh.)

Should add that both have their marbles intact, and the son has often urged them to move a lot closer to him, but they have never wanted to. And TBH given their ages and states of health, I can’t see how it’d be managed now, not to mention that such a change and general disruption would probably be the beginning of the end for them. I don’t think an actual care home has ever been suggested, though.

I really did think the neighbour was right out of order to say such a thing in front of - and directly to - the couple, who were obviously distressed anyway. If she’d wanted to speak to the son and say that, she could have done so later, in private - we have his number. She’s obviously a very brisk, no-nonsense type who doesn’t mince words, but to me it was tactless and insensitive.

At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, unless there’s really no alternative, who on earth is going to be putting anyone in a care home anyway - even if they’re willing to go? Not to mention that you can’t ‘put’ anyone with mental capacity if they don’t choose to go.

Maybe I’m BU but the lack of sensitivity to a lovely couple really bothered me. The ‘forthright’ neighbour has not known the couple nearly as long as we have, so presumably just thinks of them as pathetic oldies who need to be firmly told what’s good for them, rather than the smart, active people we knew before.

EmilyHarburn Fri 08-May-20 11:25:23

The neighbour was out of order. The couple need to refer themselves to a physiotherapist or occupational therapist who will show them how to get up from the floor. it is a skill to learn in old age. example
firstaidforlife.org.uk/how-to-get-up-after-a-fall/
In our U3A we have been given leaflets.

I used to get my father to get himself up by positioning the stool and then telling him the moves one after another. It seemed that he could not sequence his body.

NHS advice
www.cpft.nhs.uk/Documents/Falls/Getting%20up%20from%20the%20floor%20September%202018.pdf

How to get up can also be found on utube

I get plenty of pradice getting up from falls when I get out of my hammock each afternoon. I have a stool and a kitchen kneeler, next to my hammock, which is on a frame Then when the sun goes in and I get out of the hammock I kneel, put my forearms on the stool and get up.

We can self refer to the physio in our area on line so you may be able to help them with this and print a suitable leaflet off/

Dealite Fri 08-May-20 11:22:23

Gustheguidedog just read your message and have to say it’s wonderful you have your independence, I’m sure it’s been a long road for you but please be kind on here. The conversation is not published in any way that identifies who we are speaking about, nor does it damage any one and certainly it doesn’t damage you. Your opinion is as valued as much as any other person on here but you don’t have to attack someone for seeking advice about concerns they have. Have a good day and keep safe x

Twig14 Fri 08-May-20 11:17:50

So sad to read your comments. My elderly parents both lived independently at home until February this year. Both aged 99 years my mother took ill and as I coukdnt look after my father and my DH who has a serious medical condition I sadly had to put dad into respite in a care hone. He was fine did really well then my mother cane out of hospital but not well enough to return home. She cane to stay with me almost 10?weeks ago. Then the care hone went into lockdown. Not allowed to visit then on Good Friday he was taken into hospital n died 3 days later of COVID 19. I buried him last week with all the restrictions for burials. I’m now caring for my mother. No way would I dream of mentioning going into a care home. Obviously different circumstances can arise but the complete lack of sensitivity that your neighbours showed to the elderly couple was dreadful. The couple are blessed to have suck kind neighbours as yourselves. Take care

Dealite Fri 08-May-20 11:17:42

Witzend well done you for being such caring neighbours, continue doing what you do with a kind heart and a clear conscience. I’m sure your neighbours family know the situation and possibly have discussed issues with their parents, however, the couple are of sound mind and whatever happens it is their decision to stay or go into a home. IMO no one has the authority to make that decision for them unless they have been made medically incapacitated either physically or mentally. I’m assuming you have a number for their children so it’s worth a concerned call to them about the actual number of falls and their decision what to do about it? Please ignore the other neighbours action, as you say they hold different standards and I’m sure the elderly couple will be slow to call on them again given their brash dealings. Best of luck, stay safe x

gustheguidedog Fri 08-May-20 11:06:00

Ok, so YOU think your neighbour was out of line by speaking directly to THEIR son instead of `talking behind their back` as an elderly person and a Blind person (I use specialised assistive technology to use the computer) I live alone too and I believe my `marbles are still intact` I'd like to ask YOU what the hell you think you are doing? You are publishing THEIR business to the world on a far greater scale than your neighbour did.
Wind your neck in @Witzend

Witzend Fri 08-May-20 11:01:10

Thanks again for replies.
The son has had grab rails etc. installed, but evidently there are times when they’re not in exactly the right place.

IMO it’s virtually impossible to prevent falls altogether. My mother had several (only one causing real damage) when she was in her very good care home. Because of dementia she was a ‘wanderer’ and rarely remembered to use her Zimmer frame, and obviously they couldn’t watch her every second. The only way they could have prevented them altogether would have been to tie her to bed or chair, or drug her into a stupor.

The difference with being in a CH, however, is that there are always going to be staff to find and help you.

VioletSky2059 Fri 08-May-20 10:51:20

You sound a very caring and empathetic neighbour unlike the other one. Very insensitive neighbour you have and blunt to the pint of being cruel. No respect for the people they went to ‘help’ no thought of the need for letting their frail neighbours maintain some kind of dignity.
The aim of social care is to help people stay as independent as possible for as long as possible. It’s not a perfect system but it’s better than the suggestion of shoving someone in a home, thats unnecessary unless there is absolutely no other alternative. I hope your frail neighbours are now not scared about asking for help with remarks like that. Maybe their son could look at adjustments to their home to help them get about more easily, OTs can do that assessment, to look at mobility and trip hazards etc, sounds like they need a good health review to rule out any underlying health problems that could be sorted out. Maybe the son could have a chat with his parents to look at the problems and then if they agree talk to the GP to get some assessments done to find solutions. I would be livid if someone came to my home when I was vulnerable and told me I should be in a care home.

Hawera1 Fri 08-May-20 10:50:01

It does sound with the number of falls they are having they might be heading in the direction of a care home. Still now isn't the time for changes like that with covid. Perhaps suggest to the son that they get a call.button one for round the neck. We have them in New Zealand so you.must have that service there. Yes she was overbearing and rude. You are not wrong.

Witzend Fri 08-May-20 10:33:54

The thing is, Oopsadaisy, even social services can’t do anything if people with mental capacity say they don’t want or need help and won’t let them in.

Our neighbours’ son is, I’m sure, all too aware that things can’t go on much longer as they are, but it’s just not that easy. The couple do have carers in, but falls will typically happen at other times.

As per my pp, all too often it takes a crisis of some sort for anything to change.

Oopsadaisy3 Fri 08-May-20 10:33:53

Witzend I’m concerned that you are responsible for determining whether or not the fallen neighbour needs medical attention, what if they have hit their head unknowingly? if they have fallen, then an ambulance should be called, just in case. MIL fell and felt sore, thought she had fallen on her coccyx, plus a black eye, it took 2 weeks to find that she had broken her pelvis in 2 places, after that she was fitted with an alarm that, if she fell alerted an office ( I can’t remember the name of the company).
Sorry to keep dripping on about MIL, but my SIL went through 3 years of hell looking after her with constant falls and then Vascular Dementia, so I feel very strongly that if they are a danger to themselves that something should be done.

Lulu16 Fri 08-May-20 10:32:15

There are many things in place that can help elderly relatives, but it has to be right for them. My elderly parents resisted help, but eventually after Dad died, Mum had carers in once a day. This didn't suit her, but she found a lovely lady who was an ex carer, who comes in to do shopping and have a chat.
They get on well and it makes Mum happy. I live too far away to help on a daily basis.
I am sure that there is a fine balance to the issue of care. My parents and in laws live/d to a good age because they are/were independent and strong minded!
There are so many caring agencies and charities that provide all kinds of help, without being intrusive.
Could they have an assessment in their home to reduce the hazards of falling? Are they connected with buzzers to a care line? I hope that it all works out.

popsis71 Fri 08-May-20 10:28:42

Neighbours tried that with my mother. I invited them in to tell her themselves. They came in. She told them to MTOB - but not as polite as that! They never asked again.

Tanjamaltija Fri 08-May-20 10:25:54

What a nasty, uncouth, presumptuous, insensitive (need I go on?) person. Is there anyone else you and the couple can rely on, to help with things like shopping and falls? This person was out of line, and she also added to the couple's trauma... no doubt they were worrying about whether the son would suggest they go to a home, already. It was rude of her to insist on speaking to the son. Can you get them help from the Local Council, by way of someone dropping by every so often, to see whether they need anything? Or maybe volunteers from the Parish?

Houndi Fri 08-May-20 10:25:51

If they arexhaving that many falls the GP needs to be involved and your neighbours referred to a falls clinic.In the meantime can they go live with their son.If this is not possible carer's need to come to the home
This can be arranged through age concern.They will have to pay if able if not social services.They are operating through covid lockdown for vulnerable adults which these are

Oopsadaisy3 Fri 08-May-20 10:14:18

Witzend I agree that having full mental capacity is a godsend, but if they are physically incapable of looking after themselves , then they cannot rely on other ( usually also older people) to do everything for them, surely?
There has to come a time for a serious talk about getting carers in and getting SS involved and IMO this should be the responsibility of the son who ‘visits occasionally’ I agree that it isn’t a viable proposition for them to move house at this late stage.

My MIl relied on her AD for 3 years, she was also ill, but did it all, by the time she had to have help MIL had dementia and it was a frightful mess to get sorted without everyone becoming extremely upset and feeling guilty.

Witzend Fri 08-May-20 10:05:22

It’s all too easy, though, to say that something should be done, when the people in question have full mental capacity and are resistant to change. You simply can’t force anything on them.

We had this situation some years ago with an aunt of dh - no dementia but needing help day and night - which she was well able to afford but didn’t want to pay for! Neighbours etc. ought to help her ‘for love’.

Dh did arrange help for her - she wouldn’t have any of it, sent the people away, and continued to ask neighbours, most of whom were themselves elderly and decrepit in one way or another.

As a result I’d have them on the phone wailing that they couldn’t cope any more - it was a nightmare, esp. when we lived nearly a 2 hour drive away. Poor dh was exhausted and tearing his hair until, after a final session where he’d been trying all day until 9pm to persuade her to move into the care home he’d arranged (it was virtually next door) she finally agreed.

What she’d imagined and wanted (very old fashioned ideas) was that someone strong and capable should be very grateful for free bed and board (no pay) in return for being her 24/7 carer, cook, shopper and cleaner, all rolled into one - and was very put out when the few people she asked said no thanks very much!

Oopsadaisy3 Fri 08-May-20 10:04:27

Yes, the neighbour was tactless, but maybe if you took a step back you would see that the situation needs to be sorted? the family should get involved and take the weight from your shoulders, the elderly need to be looked after somewhere safe if they are always falling down.
If they need to go into a home then it should be a family decision, you are emotionally involved ( of course as they are your friends) but if you and your DH weren’t able to keep popping in to help them whatever would they do?

ctussaud Fri 08-May-20 10:03:55

I have not had time to read every post in this thread, so somebody may already have suggested getting a Raizer or a Hoverjack; both these things raise a fallen person back up to their feet. I don’t imagine they’re cheap, but moving costs a fortune!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrLdh1Y_Dwc

jaylucy Fri 08-May-20 10:03:16

The only thing I can really think to say is that I truly hope that that same neighbour has the same thing happen to her when she is older and trying to maintain her own independence!

PamSJ1 Fri 08-May-20 10:02:32

My dad went into a care home yesterday for at least 14 days respite care leaving my mum on her own. He had a heart attack and bypass befire Christmas and since then has not made a good recovery having had several falls and other issues. Obviously we are concerned at him going there at this time but he and my mum with COPD are just not coping. Fortunately the home is currently Covid-19 free. My niece also works there so we are getting regular updates and photos. We will have the chance to Skype. Having only had phone calls for weeks it is good to be able to see him. My sister lives local and this will take strain off her as she has been battling for help him.

Nezumi65 Fri 08-May-20 10:02:29

It’s amazing how few people understand the concept of mental capacity. How patronising of the person to ring and talk about them in front of them. Really inappropriate.

Quickdraw Fri 08-May-20 10:00:01

There is a chance that an injury may be undiagnosed in this couple if they continue to fall. They definitely need a formal assessment via the GP. I feel concerned for you and your husband that you may be at risk of injury while assisting your neighbours. They need professional help I think. As for the other neighbour.... rude and insensitive!

polnan Fri 08-May-20 09:45:36

oh I got re directed to my local council, but the webpage service is down,due to the virus ...

polnan Fri 08-May-20 09:44:58

that link madmum38 takes you to a webpage that asks for your postcode, and then you are sent to your local council
so I shall look further.
not that I am falling , yet...
yes, this person was insensitive to the point of rudeness. but I think many of us , at times, can tend to speak to another person instead of direct..

but the falling I should think someone should be looking into this to find out why, and what can be done to help them other than having to call on you.
perhaps you can let us know how any progress is made?

madmum38 Fri 08-May-20 09:41:19

The neighbour was definitely in the wrong but a community alarm could be a good idea if one falls, just press the button either on the unit or one you can put round your neck, someone will answer quickly and send the help they need, a good idea is to let a neighbour/friend have a spare key

www.gov.uk/apply-for-community-alarm