Neighbour’s house has become a HMO

Well that's odd Suzie. My bloke has a big house. He lets rooms. Lodgers share bathrooms / kitchen with him. His ISN'T a HMO. The house next door to him with fewer bedrooms IS a HMO. Landlord lives elsewhere.

Well MisChateline it’s not me reading it wrongly you’re drip feeding... you did not originally say the couple had been in the attic for a good few months because now in your latest post you say that your neighbour told you in the first few months of lockdown that she had let her top room out, your first post made it sound as if this was all a new thing
So the upstairs couple have been there for 6 months? and obviously caused you no problem and you yourself refer to them as LODGERS
If you have had no trouble in the last 6 months why do you want to rock the boat now , you say you are worried about your car or windows why would you want to make things more unpleasant and perhaps cause a nice young couple to lose their home ?

Are you sure your feelings haven’t changed because of your disagreement

Gago you are wrong - a house can be an HMO with a resident landlord/lady. It’s about numbers.

25Avalon

A licence may not be needed for a small HMO (3 +) depending on your local Council.

You can check whether the house needs a licence here:

www.gov.uk/house-in-multiple-occupation-licence

But your neighbour still lives there. They're lodgers. A HMO is a house rented out to different people in its entirety, no resident owner.

My tenant has a lodger. He holds the tenancy. The lodger doesn't have a tenancy agreement. They share a bathroom and kitchen.

Good grief, don’t make problems where there aren’t any yet. As others have said, start with your council and feel confident you’re in the right before you go rocking any boats. Make sure your own house has fire alarms.

In the area where I live we have an unusual design of buildings. The valley is steep and tall thin terraces of houses often span two street levels. Some are split into separate upper and lower dwellings and some like mine are 4 storey houses with one or two rooms on each floor (and 3 flights of stairs).
Our cellar/basement rooms have a back door onto a shared right of way and small garden areas at one end of the room and the other end of the room is technically underground because of the steepness of the terrain.
My cellar room has been converted into a kitchen/diner and most people on the terrace have similar layouts. At street level there is one room, sitting room, with a front door opening onto the pavement. On the next floor is one bedroom and a bathroom and the large attic room tops the property. This terrace is in a conservation area for historical reasons. These cellar rooms an be cold. Mine has been tanked and insulated and I am having underfloor heating installed at the moment. My neighbour frequently complained about the cold and damp when she was living and sleeping in her cellar room. She has now vacated the cellar, moved to the first floor bedroom and let out the cellar room.

moggie57
"report them to the council .who knows what health issues they might have.. its illegal anyway to sub let...fire escapes..?

As I understood it, the person in question owns the house, doesn't she? If so, I don't think it qualifies as subletting, as she is not a tenant."*

It's perfectly legal to let out spare rooms in the house you live in, and even if you are renting in the social housing sector, in many cases!
In fact, it is something that people in receipt of housing benefit are often actively encouraged to do since the bedroom tax was introduced.

That doesn't mean that one doesn't have to comply with any national or local requirements regarding licencing, safety etc., of course.

Just out of interest, MissChateline, when you say cellar, do you mean what some of us might call a basement?

To me, a cellar is underground and would need substantial renovation to turn it into a bedroom.

My local council website clearly states the following definition of an HMO. In my opinion my neighbour’s house clearly falls into this category.

A House in Multiple Occupation (HMO) is a building or part of one, like a house, flat, maisonette or bungalow that is:

occupied by people who do not live as a single household (people in a family relationship);
and where they share (or lack) one or more basic amenities, like a toilet, personal washing and cooking facilities.

A licence may not be needed for a small HMO (3 +) depending on your local Council.

I think there's a big difference between taking in lodgers and a HMO.

If there is no noise or disruption, it doesn't really affect you.

Bluebell, please read what I have written,

“Well MissChateline your story is changing you said you hadn’t spoken since you fell out in lockdown
* this deteriorated badly during lockdown and we actively avoid communicating now*
This has now become
My neighbour has told me that she is letting out her attic room to a couple and I regularly chat to this couple
So you are talking to the neighbour ! ( and her lodgers)

What I have said is perfectly consistent, my neighbour told me during the first few months of lockdown when we were speaking to each other that she had let the attic room to lodgers. Subsequently our relationship deteriorated during lockdown to the point where we have for the past few weeks actively avoid communicating.
The lodgers are a perfectly nice couple and we engage in passing pleasantries should we happen to meet whilst entering or exiting our own front doors which are close to each other. I don’t know their names and very little about them apart from occupation and what part of the country they are from.

I may or may not report this. I have written a draft email to environmental health. I think that am more likely to phone and test the water. I am concerned about the fire risk with so many people using substandard cooking facilities and no fire precautions.

I am of course concerned about my own safety should I report it. Am I likely to find my car damaged or a brick through my window.

report them to the council .who knows what health issues they might have.. its illegal anyway to sub let...fire escapes..?

But the OP hasn’t said that the quality of her life has been affected. If it is, then dealing with the impact is perfectly reasonable. But years could go by with no impact whatsoever, in which case why report it, other than to stop the neighbour from getting a bit of extra money in hard times?

There is probably more chance of there being an impact on her quality of life if she reports it and makes an enemy of both the neighbours and her lodgers.

MissChateline I believe if the actions of others impinges on the quality or comfort of your life then you need to deal with the issue. You should be aware however, when dealing in particular with local councils, the process is not straight forward and can take a long time. Mine took five years before it was resolved.

Councils and how they deal with the implementation of bye-laws vary. In my experience, I discovered staff employed to deal with complicated issues often ill-equipped educationally to do so and left floundering around to find someone to supply answers. In other words, you the informant have to be ahead in understanding the issue from A to Z. In my case, the police came to my rescue - the local council, although its job, afraid to pursue the matter.

What I have said should not put you off, you just need to be aware of what you are likely to have to face. In my case, I confronted the individual concerned and stated exactly where it was going. My family very concerned for my safety, but sometimes you have to stand up and be counted.

Finally, do not expect or rely on neighbours to do the same, because unlike you, they are unlikely to have the courage to back you up.

Miss Chateline can you and your neighbours who are unhappy with your immediate neighbours actions not complain as a collective to the Council as surely they would listen to your concerns then.

Good luck with reporting. When I lived in an area where certain landlords did as they pleased and turned the road into a nightmare, I reported to the council several times and the police and back again. Nothing changed.

Dungeon? I meant to say ‘cellar’

Live and let live. I really dislike petty mindedness in any shape or form, and would only report neighbours for violence or extreme anti-social behaviour. The ‘it’s against the rules!’ mindset is deeply unpleasant, IMO, and often used to settle grudges or as a result of petty jealousies.

If you suspected human trafficking, or that the dungeon was full of bodies it would be one thing; but a couple of lodgers is quite another. The poor woman is, as you say, already struggling- have a bit of compassion, and let her try to get on her feet.

If the arrangement causes actual problems down the line, have a word, or deal with them as they arise, but why not wait and see how things pan out?

eazy
‘You seem to know a great deal about your neighbour's property; are you sure your information is accurate?‘

That’s a bit patronising imo. I know a great deal about my neighbours properties as well - who sleeps with whom in what room, number of bedrooms, loos, bathrooms, regular visitors and their relationship to neighbour, who delivers their online shopping, who their mobile barber/hairdresser is, if they smoke, where they go on holiday ......

I would check as to whether your neighbour's house is registered as an HMO, because safety regulations may not be in place, which could affect your property.
Other than that, don't mention rent, benefits or possible fraud; that is for the authorities to pursue.

You seem to know a great deal about your neighbour's property; are you sure your information is accurate?

Toad-in-the-hole you are right, of course there’s harm done

Well MissChateline your story is changing you said you hadn’t spoken since you fell out in lockdown
* this deteriorated badly during lockdown and we actively avoid communicating now*
This has now become
My neighbour has told me that she is letting out her attic room to a couple and I regularly chat to this couple
So you are talking to the neighbour ! ( and her lodgers)

Everyone has to make there own decisions in a situation like this I would never report someone unless it was impinging on my own life and you clearly said in your original post that there had so far been no problems You are not talking about 10 people in one room but you are annoyed with her aren’t you ?

Misschateline, imagine this happening if you and all your neighbours were deeply asleep in the middle of the night

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/video-families-evacuated-as-fire-rips-681352

A quick Google shows that there are many checks and certificate that must be obtained before anyone can let out or rent a property.

Energy Performance Certificate (EPC)
Electrical Certificates
Gas Safety Certificate
Fire Safety Checks Certificate
Legionella Risk Assessment certificate
Deposit Protection Paperwork