Mum won’t listen to advice AIBU?

Atqui, I don't doubt it. I notice that people of like minds and backgrounds form socialising groups. I notice this on Facebook where all my friends and acquaintances are politically left wing and all their friends and acquaintances are likewise turtles all the way down apparently.

Yes of course far more people go to university and higher education than when we were young, but most of my friends read up on current affairs and opinions , and not just social media .

Atqui, I did say "generally". Education is generally better than it was when I was a nipper.

That’s a bit of a sweeping statement Alexa!

Atqui, maybe it is because older people are generally not as well educated as younger people. Unless older people have been taught in their youth to view the wider issues they will not deal well with culture shocks.

Atqui

I don’t know why the balance changes as we get older. In my case my daughter is telling me the lockdown restrictions are ridiculous and why shouldn’t people visit their families if it makes them feel better.I totally disagree but we have to agree to differ.She is an adult and I won’t tell her what to do, but she speaks to me as if I am a silly child believing the “ scaremongering media”

That's the "walking on eggshells when talking to our adult children" conversation. I haven't got a friend who hasn't been there.

nellgwynne

I think lots of us have this frustration. I think that basically, if elderly relatives are of sound mind, they should be allowed to make their own decisions. There's no point making ourselves miserable over it. Give the advice once, and then let them get on with it. I may sound hard, but they are adults.

Even if they are not "sound of mind" they are still autonomous beings and should be allowed to make their own decisions unless it can be shown that they are doing something detremental to their own well being.

If you are sound of mind you are allowed to choose to do something that is detremental to your own well being. It's a conundrum, but where our older realatives are now we will be soon enough.

I have reminded her it’s not about choosing to get the virus , it’s about safeguarding hospitals.

I don’t know why the balance changes as we get older. In my case my daughter is telling me the lockdown restrictions are ridiculous and why shouldn’t people visit their families if it makes them feel better.I totally disagree but we have to agree to differ.She is an adult and I won’t tell her what to do, but she speaks to me as if I am a silly child believing the “ scaremongering media”

Harmonypuss wrote:

"Basically, I think that if someone who is allegedly 'vulnerable' to the virus by virtue of age or pre-existing health condition, should be asked by their friends and family what they want to do, whether they are prepared to accept the risks, then if other family members are conscious of the possible transmission of virus across ALL the people they come into contact with, then decisions should be made by all concerned and if one person doesn't like to arrangements then they don't have to get involved in them."

Harmonypuss, are you also aware of your duty as a member of society not to become a drain on the health service?

PS I am 89 and I like not having to go out and about, doing small talk , and smiling to people I don't care about. I am never bored.
NB I dont claim to be typical of 89 year olds.

Tangerine, old people are morally responsible for their decisions . Old age is not an excuse for irresponsible or stupid behaviour.

It is not proper for younger people to make unasked for decisions on behalf of elders, unless the elders have lost their minds.

I understand how worrying your mother's behaviour is for you.
If it is any help, there are always stupid people and nothing can be done about that fact. Just carry on as you are doing and at least your mother will be all the happier for it.

I think lots of us have this frustration. I think that basically, if elderly relatives are of sound mind, they should be allowed to make their own decisions. There's no point making ourselves miserable over it. Give the advice once, and then let them get on with it. I may sound hard, but they are adults.

I have also had many of the problems described with my elderly relatives. To be fair, their minds are definitely not working properly in the best of circumstances so perhaps it is not fair to expect them to easily understand.

What do I do personally? I go out once a week to get their shopping and my own shopping. I go for a walk a couple of times a week. In the past I have gone with one friend but, lately, I have walked alone.

It is hard. I agree with people who say the older people mustn't defy the advice given them but it must be a miserable existence to be, say, in your 80s or 90s and unable to mix with anyone or use things like Zoom etc.

It is easy to tell an older person to do this or that but I have the freedom to walk alone every day. I don't have to sit on my premises month after month.

Let's hope the vaccine works. Life won't get back to normal just like that but it will be a start.

on own

You don't say if your mum might have early signs of dementia - it often begins by not being able to take on new advice or instructions.

If that is the definition of lack of capacity we are all going to have real problems as we get older. If someone wants to do things their way we should not immediately going for the dementia option. They are allowed to even if you don't agree or would do things differently.

Your poor mum. I'm afraid I see this as bullying. If she does have dementia you will need others to decide her capacity to make decision on her on behalf thankfully. You cannot just decide. Even with dementia people will retain levels of capacity for a long time and in different areas.

Personally, I never TOLD my elderly father what to do, or how to live his life ... I asked him (and sometimes pleaded with him), not to go out, and not to have people in his home, because it wasn't safe for him to do so. Now, he has Covid, and his chances of recovery are slim. His choice, some might say, but his actions have put others at risk, and devastated the whole family.

When I reach 85, my kids had better not try telling me how to live or they will get an answer they won't like!

Advice is one thing, but she doesn't need to follow your orders. You've told her about the Covid rules and she understands them. That's the end of your responsibility in the matter.

I am sorely tempted to suggest that those who choose to ignore the rules should be able to sign an alternative to DNR which would be DNHWC (do not hospitalise with Covid) - but of course I wouldn't dare.

Harmonypuss, your attitude is selfish and inconsiderate. It shouldn't be your decision about 'how much risk' to take.

You are gambling with the lives of others too. No wonder the virus has spread like wildfire. Some people still don't really 'get it', still spout the 'I'll take my chances' nonsense, still fail to realise the possible consequences.

Why should my friend, a nurse in a Covid ward, risk her life every day to care for ignorant people like you?

Frankly, I'm shocked and astonished by the the selfish attitudes of some older people ... and we keep being told it's the younger ones who are being irresponsible, and spreading the virus!

I have been pleading with my father for several months not to go out of the house, and not to have people in. Constantly, I've tried to explain the rules and restrictions of lockdown ... just because people are legally allowed to go out for essential shopping, etc., doesn't mean they HAVE to go out, if they have someone who does their shopping for them, which he does!! But did he listen to me?! No! He still went out, just because he said he was allowed to!!

Consequently, he ended up in hospital recently, due to an accident he had whilst he was out! He had three negative test results whilst he was there. Unfortunately, his last test result, upon discharge, was positive for Covid! He is obviously very remorseful, and, of course, he bitterly regrets that he didn't listen me. If he hadn't left home (unnecessarily!), he wouldn't have had an accident, and he wouldn't have contracted the virus in the hospital! He is now coughing badly, struggling to breath, and hooked up to a machine to help with his oxygen levels.

I live overseas, and I've been unable to visit my father for the past year, due to lockdowns/travel restrictions, and, now, I may never see him again. I have gone through every emotion possible, from being extremely angry with him, for being so stubborn and irresponsible, to now being totally distraught, and beside myself with worry! Unless you are unfortunate enough to be in this position, you can not begin to imagine what it's like.

For all you selfish people out there, who think it's OK to go out and about, or to mix your bubbles, or to have people in your home, I want to say, it's not just about you! Try not to be so selfish, and start thinking about the people who love, and care about you. Because, at the end of the day, we're the ones who end up having to deal with all the heartache, worry and stress that you end up causing us ... just because you wanted to pop to the shops, or have a 'friend' in for coffee!!

Harmonypuss
The flu is NOT a coronavirus.
We knew that from the beginning.

This is not a live and let live situation. Your actions affect me and vice versa. So yes, we do need rules, because every person thinks their own personal common sense is enough. Look around. It is not.

justwokeup

Classic I entirely agree, having a relative in the same position in a care home who died of loneliness and lockdown, not covid. Also this is the worst national and international crisis most of us have lived through, the really elderly have lived through a World War (my relative just managed to survive 2!) and many killer diseases. I think it’s incomprehensible to some of them how our lives are being curtailed by this. Be kind to your DM, it might also be that she feels pressured by the other members of her family who are calling to see her.

Justwokeup,

Please do not take my comment as a challenge but I am genuinely interested in why you thought your relative died of loneliness and lockdown in a care home.

My mother, with Alzheimer’s, was discharged into a care home after a fall at her home last April. I was in agreement with the hospital as it was becoming impossible to keep her safe at home even without Covid concerns. But she has changed dramatically since then, both physically and mentally, becoming quite aggressive, even more confused and challenging. Of course this could just be due to the progression of her disease but as I have not seen her face to face since the first lockdown began, I have no real idea of how much her isolation in the care home is affecting her, she used to see me or my siblings every day and now no longer knows who we are.

I worry about how lonely she might be and your post made me wonder about the signs you saw in your relative

Pussanne I hope if you are taking risks and then catch it, you will stay at home and decline medical assistance and not strain the NHS and poor doctors and nurses for your selfishness. Good grief no wonder we are in this mess