I wasn’t a Birthing Person and I didn’t Chest Feed

Intersex people have repeatedly asked not to be brought into the discussion. It would be good if they were listened to as well instead of being regularly banned from Twitter.

Cherrytree59, you said “One is either XX chromosome or XY chromosome end of.”

Not quite. Kleinfelter syndrome means someone has XXY and in Jacob’s Syndrome, the person has XYY. See here: thefocusfoundation.org/x-y-chromosomal-variations/

What an original idea Cherrytree !

Well I'm het up about it,.

Perhaps we should do away with with the terms women men, transmen, transwomen, cis women or whatever and deal in biological facts

One is either XX chromosome or XY chromosome end of.

Public places such as changing rooms and toilets labelled
as either XX or XY.

Doodledog, people can talk about what they like - my point was that I see no reason to get het up about this.

Rosie51 It is terribly difficult to actually find figures. In 2017 the Guardian reported that 70% of those seeking help at the Tavistock were F2M whereas a couple of years before it was 75% M2F. So it would seem more girls are transitioning. The USA has more accurate figures which indicate a rapid rise in F2M as well.

Apologies if this has been mentioned but what about breast cancer?

Will this now be called chest cancer?

12:43Madgran77

Surely they wouldn't be able to chest feed then.

No one is asking you to move over for men. As has been pointed out there are now more transmen than transwomen.

I think you'll find that although today many times the number of young females are transgendering than young men, there are hugely more middle aged and older transwomen than transmen. Are you absolutely sure the total number of transmen outnumbers transwomen?

I'm wondering why if a person has made the decision to transition from female to male, presumably because they feel they have been living in the wrong body, why they would want to undertake one of the most defining aspects of being a woman, giving birth

I think the chest feeding change is actually about men who have transitioned to women!?

Doodledog

trisher

So actually no one is "changing" anything just adding to the vocabulary used so that minorities can be treated with understanding and sympathy.
I do notice that the "I'm not anti-trans brigade" who were posting misinformation about protected spaces have now taken on this thread since they were called to account elsewhere.

Bollocks. Or whatever the word is nowadays.

Speaking only for myself, I left the other thread purely because I got so sick of repeating that I am not anti-trans (and you have no right to tell me what I am), but have all the concerns that I laid out time and again on that thread be ignored and met with some gaslighting nonsense. I did explain why I was leaving the thread, but as usual you obviously didn't listen to anything that does not fit your misogynist agenda.

I don't think that any of us arguing that feminism is not about moving over for men were 'called to account' on that thread, and nor are we 'a brigade'.

Anyway, this is re-hashing another thread, but I didn't want to sit back in the face of an unnecessary and inaccurate dig when you brought the other thread up.

Accusations of misogyny because you support the freedom of the individual to identify as the gender they choose and to have that identity respected always amuse me. Isn't it misogynistic to call another woman misogynistic?
No one is asking you to move over for men. As has been pointed out there are now more transmen than transwomen.

Oh, get over it! Individuals can call themselves and their body parts what they wish. I can’t believe that in the throes of a pandemic, everyone is getting het up about such a trivial thing

What should we talk about 'in the face of a pandemic' then? Few things are more important than people dying in large numbers, so what is left for us to discuss on a discussion forum?

mokryna I suspect the younger generation are much more au fait with these things than most on GN. They are streets ahead in the use of pronouns. There is a substantial amount of literature now with non-binary characters. I struggle with it, when "they" is used I start to think there is more than one person!

It is about communication. The most high-powered consultant is ready to use colloquial terms to a patient (or even a client) when explaining the implications of a serious medical or surgical diagnosis.

A midwife using a term that the patient or client) doesn't normally use will not be communicating well with them. Restricting the terms that he/she can use to his/her patients (clients) is restricting their ability to properly care for them.

If everyone has a right to whatever designation they choose, then also they have a right to have their breasts called breasts, not chest, and if they call normally call them boobs (very common these days) then the midwife should be able to use that word to refer to them.

trisher

So actually no one is "changing" anything just adding to the vocabulary used so that minorities can be treated with understanding and sympathy.
I do notice that the "I'm not anti-trans brigade" who were posting misinformation about protected spaces have now taken on this thread since they were called to account elsewhere.

Bollocks. Or whatever the word is nowadays.

Speaking only for myself, I left the other thread purely because I got so sick of repeating that I am not anti-trans (and you have no right to tell me what I am), but have all the concerns that I laid out time and again on that thread be ignored and met with some gaslighting nonsense. I did explain why I was leaving the thread, but as usual you obviously didn't listen to anything that does not fit your misogynist agenda.

I don't think that any of us arguing that feminism is not about moving over for men were 'called to account' on that thread, and nor are we 'a brigade'.

Anyway, this is re-hashing another thread, but I didn't want to sit back in the face of an unnecessary and inaccurate dig when you brought the other thread up.

Image how to give a science lesson in school, so that pupils would understand, using these new guide lines.

Calistemon, yes, I do think it is trivial.

I use the name ‘geekesse’ because many moons ago when AOL was the only social network, the name ‘geek’ was already taken. In any case, I’m arguing that people should be called what they want to be called. Read the thread - no-one is dismissing female people as women, they are just adding to the vocabulary to be more inclusive. I’m astonished that so may women feel so threatened by this!

trisher

Doodledog this is actually about women who don't want to be called women or mothers. No men nvolved except transmen who I believe you think are still women. So why blame men for it?

You believe wrong. As usual, you are deciding what I think, but anyway. . .

For what am I blaming men?

Well I can't understand why a person identified as a female at birth who then decides that they want to now be a man would in the future want to have a child why didn't they just stay as they were a woman. Seems they want it all ways.

Let's face it, this phraseology won't catch on. Not even in Brighton!

I'm really puzzled by all this. Have I gone to another planet?

inclusive - yes.
Inclusive - including women with wombs who become pregnant, give birth and breast feed their baby.

I don't consider myself 'Woke', I just try to act as a decent, inclusive and respectful human being. It's not hard.

I think I did ‘chest feed’ my babies - I’ve never had much of a bosom.

I don't mind at all what or who they are but if they do not, then I don't see why a minority should impose their views, their mores, upon the majority.

I don't know enough about transgender issues to know whether or not a male who is now female can become pregnant, give birth and then lactate to comment on that.