To think too much is expected of teachers these days

Lots of mothers didn't work back in the 50's and 60's and so had more time and energy to talk to and play with their children, cook proper meals and teach children basic life skills.

I am not suggesting we should return to that because many mothers were also totally financially dependent on their husbands and did not have the opportunity to work outside the home/pursue a career, and feel like fully involved and independent members of society.

I do think, though, that there should be much more emphasis on work/life balance and, to achieve that, working hours for both men and women reduced and made more flexible. Of course, people will say that we can't afford to reduce working hours but years ago people worked six or six and a half day weeks and had few or no holidays. The whole world didn't fall apart when this changed. I believe it has been discovered that workers are only able to maintain alertness and focus for a certain number of hours and then their productivity tails off.

I do think that, as things currently stand, teachers are expected to make up the shortfall for all sorts of issues that could have been addressed more naturally within the family if the family was not so exhausted working long hours and trying to fit in domestic duties in the short time available to them at the end of their working day.

My husband and I are both retired secondary school teachers teaching over 30 years each and finished in 2005 and then things were changing fast and neither of us were that sad to go as more and more was expected and often working 90 hour weeks. I had class sizes of up to 36 and even 20 in A level classes for maths. A break was a luxury and I worked through lunch hours to help children who had problems or who had been absent. No wonder we felt burned out . How I managed full time work with a child and a dog and 4 cats I have no idea now.
Primary school friends seemed even worse off.
My daughter in law trained to teach earlier years after being an accountant and lasted just 2 years in the job ( I think the average now may be as little as 5 years) as it seemed impossible.
Then over the pandemic year teachers have been expected to be saints who juggle their own families with face to face and online teaching simultaneously! And for little thanks and not that good wages.
A friend's daughter is a music teacher not allowed to use instruments or do singing .... and the school no longer uses the staffroom to gain extra teaching space.
We ask far too much and polititians are often hyper critical of the fantastic job done by so many.

Uk teachers are often under qualified and over tested. Compare our system to that in Finland - which actually spends less per child on education - , the teachers there are educated to at least a Masters level, but are then trusted to be good at their job without continual assessment.
It would take ages to outline their system here, but it is interesting to research it.
I was a teacher before I had my children, and when I found myself at the school gates as a parent I was shocked at how many would undermine the teachers in front of their children. No wonder some children have no respect for teachers, if their parents don’t. Just a thought.

It is always a question of funding, who`s budget pays for specialist additional staff? Teachers have a hard job but so do people like social workers etc. Education is so important but I would hope someone working with a child 5 days a week might spot something amiss.

Oh midgey you are SO right, bloody Gove and his useless ideas and a cabinet of Elton and Harrow educated idiots who have literally NOT the foggiest idea what a bog standard comprehensive is about

I agree with Eazybe.
Special schools are there for a reason. If a child has a difficulty or disability then there are experts within Special schools - use them. There is absolutely no advantage to the child if a ‘do gooder’ is in the mainstream classroom.
The olden times did have some practices that would be shunned by today’s parents but - we have thrown out the baby with the bath water. Too many adults in the classroom. Teaching assistants? Why?
Classroom support staff? Why?
121 support? Why?
Only 1 teacher with mainstream pupils (not students) if children have an issue then that’s why we have specialist schools (special schools)
Also how can we expect children to keep the rules when many parents don’t comply with school rules.

I think teachers should concentrate more on teaching school subjects, rather than all these extra ‘chores’ which should be dealt with by trained professionals. If the police can go into schools to warn children about drugs etc, why can’t social workers, and other professionals do the same and leave the teachers to get on with teaching?

My daughter is a secondary school teacher (and manager). Several days a week she is on duty, straight to lessons, five hours of intense teaching, straight on to another duty and on Friday, detention after school. She works and works and is an amazing teacher and people manager. It’s a hard job, very data driven these days and currently assessing and documenting endless evidence for the non exams for the poor COVID restricted exam year kids. She’s for two small people of her own. I worked in business all my life and despite many long nights and weekend work I can’t remember such an awful working environment where you don’t get to get a drink, lunch and visit the loo and people just say “well they get the holidays”. Thank god they do or we would not have a teaching profession. I could say a lot more about how it works now and how education under Gove was put back decades. Teachers have become a target for parents and the media, I am always encouraging my child to leave as it’s an unpleasant environment to work in. She loves the kids though and feels responsible for them so won’t.

When I was a child pupils were expected to have the basics of civilised life before they started school, toilet training, table manners and a grasp of what is socially acceptable, parents then would have been mortified to send a child to school without this grounding. As the child got older, the parents covered the sex education and morality. Nowadays parental responsibility seems to end at birth, and anyone the parent can pass responsibility to is expected to rear the child. Teachers and TAs are expected to fill the gaps where parents can't be bothered, then vilified when they do not have the skills or enthusiasm to do so. It's time parental responsibility was passed back to the parents, not pushed on to already overworked teaching staff.

They do say 'it takes a village to raise a child' and schooling has for over a hundred years been part of that raising. School for all children is still quite a recent development so the umbrella is going to get bigger and bigger as we go along.
The UK is still one of the richest countries in the World but the % of GDP that gets spent on education has been consistently less than other leading economies and often less than countries such as Malaysia.
It is a disgrace and it isn't going to get any better in a post pandemic world.

Whatdayisit every school needs a good school governor like you that can navigate the system

Yes i agree with you JaneJudge.
I became a parent governor for a lot of years for that reason to try and be an approachable voice for the parents who lacked communication skills or the children who lacked parenting.
Drug use in families is a big problem today that children have to deal with as they grow up.

I meant to quote the original comment that you agreed with.

You might be right Lucca.
But I did not make the comment and was certainly not trying to derail the thread.
I would have pressed "like" if GN had that facility and moved on.
There was no animosity towards teachers in what I said, I was one myself, but I am entitled to agree with other posters that many other jobs are just as hugely stressful.

Ellianne

^Teachers should be well paid but they aren’t the only people who have a hugely stressful job although you wouldn’t think it to listen to some of them.^
That is so true TwiceasNice.

What has that got to do with this thread?
I was a teacher as are/were many of my friends, none of them ever ever said teaching is the only stressful job.

This really is not what is being discussed at all.

my grandchildren school does do special needs classrooms and social care.my daughter has greatly relied on them.since the death of her husband a few years ago the children certainly have needed this .

It did take a lot of hours to do all that Growstuff- I know cos I put them in! Teachers are taking on a lot, but so are nurses , police officers , social workers etc, not ideal but I don’t know what the remedy is.

I had a very satisfying experience with a permanently disgruntled parent in a class that I taught. She decided to take matters into her own hands and went to the LEA to apply for a teaching post that was due to become vacant . She was amazed that primary teachers needed qualifications of any kind and , without so much as a c.s.e. , o level or leaving certificate to her name , she agreed that this course of action to improve our efforts might take a bit longer than she thought.

The thing I remember about my education is that school was fun! I didn’t work particularly hard but I enjoyed myself. However I did gain a lot of knowledge and facts. Geography, History, Biology, Religious Knowledge, Hymns, English Literature, English Language and Grammar, Drama, Art, Music, four Languages - no interest in Science or Maths!! All this has stood me in good stead- plus making friends for life. I have noticed that many young people today really don’t have a good grounding in separate subjects - and general knowledge is rather lacking. I guess they are all very computer and social media literate so you can’t have everything! ??

Whatdayisit

Pammiel i was glad to read that thanks to your parents you had a the experience at school that you deserved.

Unfortunately it is still the case though. Parents who are able to fight harder or understand the system better are more likely to get outcomes for their children that are suitable/adequate/good. The system is complicated though and difficult to comprehend and it is how children with undiagnosed needs and lacking in early intervention end up in reception class still in nappies and lacking in executive function. It is far too easy to blame parents.

Pammiel i was glad to read that thanks to your parents you had a the experience at school that you deserved.

It’s always been the case. I taught for 40 years and along with all the other subjects , as a primary teacher, we were expected to teach about health, relationships, citizenship,financial planning and business and anything that cropped up that anyone at all thought that we could deal with in the school day. It’s too much!

*box ticking! ?

Yes, for sure. Lots of paperwork and Bix ticking now as well as being expected to take on toles of others, eg social worker and more recently Covid-19 experts too. Better support not just from non teaching staff but from other agencies would help.

Not unreasonable to expect teachers to know about special needs. A few PPs have mentioned a ‘golden age’ as schools in 50s and 60s. Not what I remember. I have a physical disability and my parents had to fight to get the local education authority to admit me to a mainstream primary school. The assumption back then was that if you had a physical disability then you probably had reduced mental capacity too and the education in what were then known as ‘special schools’ was very basic and designed to keep kids occupied rather than teaching anything.

In 1969 I was ready for secondary education and again mum and dad had to fight firstly to allow me the right to sit the 11 plus exam and then to get me into a mainstream school. In addition, I had to take an IQ before the LA would make a decision. Thankfully once it was recognised that I didnt have learning difficulties, I got a great education, but I shudder to think what was happening to those kids whose parents weren’t equipped for the fight. Thankfully we’ve moved on from this and I think it’s really important that teacher training covers recognition of learning difficulties so that children can be referred on and get the help they need.

There was a thread on MN a little while ago from a parent who was indignant that her child’s teacher didn’t know when her birthday was, and genuinely thought that teachers should know so they can make a fuss on the special day. I think teachers have enough of a difficult job just concentrating on fulfilling the educational needs of their pupils without introducing this kind of entitled twattery !!!