To think too much is expected of teachers these days

Buffy

What is wrong with a teacher telling girls they must expect unwanted attention if they wear skirts which barely cover their private parts? The silly girls say that they should be able to wear what they like and boys shouldn’t look. I read that a teacher was fired for telling them to use some common sense.

Buffy

I am utterly appalled by your comment above !! Girls and women SHOULD absolutely be able to wear what they like ! They should be able to walk down the street naked !!

Boys and men need to be educated and learn self control !!!

polnan

As I see it..

the population has grown, stating the obvious

more "needs" are identified...

be it health, or education.

there is far more to learn...
but

I thought this news item (!)
was about the young children, learning how to speak?
etc..

so I have been wondering... where are the parents? I know.
mothers now go out to work,,

I grew up in the war years and afterwards,, my mum was basically a single parent as my father was away in the army

when I started school I didn`t need to learn/be taught, how to hold a knife and fork, attend to my toilet needs, speak even!

oh did I mention, my mum as a single parent, and another child, also had to go to work, and grow our vegetables, and keep a few chickens, to look after the family..

I learnt how to do housework, laundry, etc..

Polan

I could not agree more ! Well said

I worked in a 'special school' before it was closed. It had been flag ship in the 70's when opened with nurses and doctors even social workers houses in offices on the grounds. Successive governments cut money to put these kids in main stream schools without funding.
As for the 50's education both my husband in the South and me brought up in the North were moved into private schools. My mother found big bruises on my back/ Bulling of the local kids was dreadful and still can't remember what happened. No golden age of schools then.

I would hate to go any further back than 1997 in Education.
Yes more funding for more specialist trained teachers and support staff would go a long way to help.
But think of children 'being shipped off' as OP put it to what were called 'backward' schools again makes my blood run cold. And the random physical attacks from many teachers usually on kids who were poor, smelly and had undiagnosed mental problems and family problems with 'weapons' such as a board rubber or a metre rule. My heart still breaks at the thought of how many of my fellow pupils were treated in the classroom and what effect that has had on people's lives.
Thank goodness we have moved forward inclusion should start in the early years and people would be more equipped to deal with the different people who make up society.
Under investment in Education is the problem.

I'm fascinated by the posters who don't believe that some children are without very basic abilities when they start school. My friend taught Reception for over 30 years, and has often commented on the fact that children were starting school unable to use cutlery (yes, they ate everything with their fingers) or hold a pencil.
The other huge change was the number of children who were still in nappies/pull-ups when they started school... As she said, changing one child who (for whatever reason) was not toilet trained was one thing - but having to change 5 or 6 several times every day (or toilet train them in school time) was another - and took up so much time that actual teaching became difficult.

Yes !! I’m not so worried about some the areas you mention as most schools will have a SENCO and most teachers trained to look out for special education needs, mental health problems and learning diffs, and this is how it should be BUT there are so many other things teachers are supposed to do now and COVID has not helped ! My daughter is a reception teacher and her partner year 5, they are living with us whilst they save for a house. Much of their days are taken up with assessment after assessment (year 5) and in reception dealing with children who’s parents simply haven’t dealt with basics at home ! Dressing and undressing, toiletting, basic socialising, sometimes just using a knife and fork !!

Yes so much is put on teachers, not just education linked things !

I can recall having been bashed on the head with a large thick book by the so-called teacher who did sewing/knitting etc. How the fcuk did some of these people get to be teachers? Miss Shearer belted me over the head because I couldn't knit for love nor money....I had gotten my school scarf all wrong and an older sister had to finish it off for me. If anyone did that to any of my grand-daughters I swear to god I'd swing for them!

As I see it..

the population has grown, stating the obvious

more "needs" are identified...

be it health, or education.

there is far more to learn...
but

I thought this news item (!)
was about the young children, learning how to speak?
etc..

so I have been wondering... where are the parents? I know.
mothers now go out to work,,

I grew up in the war years and afterwards,, my mum was basically a single parent as my father was away in the army

when I started school I didn`t need to learn/be taught, how to hold a knife and fork, attend to my toilet needs, speak even!

oh did I mention, my mum as a single parent, and another child, also had to go to work, and grow our vegetables, and keep a few chickens, to look after the family..

I learnt how to do housework, laundry, etc..

says it all for me..

OF Course, before anyone jumps on me, I do know there are special needs, but this "news" report was not aimed at those.

I don't think that too much is expected at all. I was a teacher (primary, secondary and university) and alas many of my colleagues, when I was doing my first degree, went into teacher training. Many of them could barely read and write themselves. So no shock when I look these days at the homework of some children to find it wrongly marked. Errors of basic grammar everywhere; correct grammar being marked as incorrect. I despair indeed. Teacher training needs to be of much higher quality. Teachers are not required to do anything outside of a curriculum that common sense and decency would not dictate. Alas, those two elements are also often lacking. Teachers are paid enough with long enough holidays to do what they should be doing and, often, fail to do. (I know this won't be a popular opinion).

What is wrong with a teacher telling girls they must expect unwanted attention if they wear skirts which barely cover their private parts? The silly girls say that they should be able to wear what they like and boys shouldn’t look. I read that a teacher was fired for telling them to use some common sense.

Yes, too much is expected of Teachers and TAs, with ever decreasing resources. Too much is also expected of children, who Government seem to think are like sponges and just need to be talked at. Children develop at different rates, there is very little room in the National Curriculum for this - Teach and Test. Some children struggle, loose confidence and switch off. This isn’t the Teachers fault. If the Government really cared about Education it would invest in smaller classes, better equipment etc.

I’m deeply grateful for the committed teachers who touched my life and gave me a light to carry in the darkness.

I can only hope my own children are so fortunate.

There’s a lot of talk about well-being and teacher workload at the moment.
The OP’s suggestion might help with that and make it easier to address each child as special.

Ellianne. I have always said small class sizes would obviate the need for a lot of things such as non stop extra training targets blah blah etc etc

I changed careers from teaching to social work. Social work was much easier. Hours just as long, lots of problems of course but at least it was a defined job with defined rules and expectations and you were working with good teams of people who supported each other.

In the 1990’s a child was transferred from a special school to my class. She came with daily support by trained staff to enable her to be part of the class. The support gradually dwindled, though the child’s needs did not.
2 years on, other children arrived with 1 week of induction support then an afternoon visit once a month, but no other support and I didn’t even have a TA in those days.
Training for recognising and dealing with different problems is essential, but funding for trained support for these children is essential too.
There are more and more problems identified now. Along with the usual curve of ability, my current class has 5 children with specific special needs, 3 of whom are on the spectrum and all with different needs.
There are 2 support assistants for the most difficult of these children, both without expertise, but both are doing training for working with ASD, and one TA.
It’s my job to ensure that the low, middle and high ability children make progress, whether or not they have a special need, also to provide planning and support for the 3 extra adults -the TA and the support staff in relation to the needs of their children.
Add to that the parenting and social worker aspect of the job which has always been there. but is increasingly complex and it’s obvious why I agree with the OP.

X post trisher.
As you say it would be of so much benefit in the long term, throughout their lives.

^teachers care and do their best for their students often under very difficult circumstances.
Yes, Lucca, that's why I see teaching as a vocation, as is nursing or being part of the clergy. They are the type of jobs where you can't be thinking about your own needs.
How far you can ask a teacher to stretch that care is another matter, especially in dealing in large numbers.
Maybe I am getting close to the argument that class size really matters. Having just one or two extra children over a class roll of 20 must make the task far more difficult or even pretty impossible. It would feel like having another 12. That is why most independent schools restrict their class sizes and that appears to be beneficial all round.
janeainsworth is also right. What we are really talking about here has nothing to do with special educational needs. Every child is special.

janeainsworth That sounds great. Wouldn't it be wonderful if a proper joined up service was offered everywhere. I'm sure children would not only do better in school but would live happier and more succesful lives. And who knows more people might stay in teaching.

Half the kids today can't even feed themselves when they start school let alone spell when they leave

Oh for goodness sake Ellanvannin. Are you talking about your own family or what?

Trisher fully agree with you.
Steps, albeit small ones, are being taken though. Sunderland, through a partnership between the NHS and the council now offer a Psychological Wellbeing Service and some of the practitioners are based in schools to provide early intervention for children struggling with mental health problems.

I realise that’s only a small part of what is needed & isn’t the same as special educational needs.

Ellianne

I think every child in school is special and deserving of support. Be it the child whose dog has just died, the child whose father is fighting in Iraq, the child who refuses to eat the school lunches, and all the other little requirements that pop up as you say trisher. Everything needs to be fitted into the day.
As a teacher I never took a lunch break, I never left the building before 7 pm. I wanted to help the children in a pastoral role as much as in an educational one. That could my child and I would want the teacher with the best experience of the whole pupil to be the one to respond. If it meant missing my swim, then so be it.
I have no idea if this value added is possible at secondary level, I have no idea if it works with more than 20 in a class, but fortunately we were able to crack it as near as possible.
I'm also guessing it helped that we were able to go beyond what was required in the curriculum by selecting the good bits and ditching the bad.
"Just doing your job" is a good description, treating it as a vocation goes one step beyond.

You did what all good teachers do .....even in the state sector! And clearly there’s a difference when you have 30/32 per class in secondary schools.
There will be inadequate teachers of course as there inadequate plumbers, doctors, accountants, etc etc. But my experience has been that teachers care and do their best for their students often under very difficult circumstances.

Yes.

Teachers are expected to carry out many of the tasks that parents did as a matter of course years ago.
They are expected to be social workers.
They need far more support with special needs pupils although I think provision is better in some areas than others.

I agree and people wonder why teachers are stressed and leaving the profession in droves.

I work with a number of children who receive physio in schools.

Wouldn't that be lovely trisher if it were available for every child who needed it.