Potential allergy issue at local pub

I’m inclined to agree with Maizie. Just mention it on the menu, However clearly anyone with intolerance to certain food will always specify that when they order.

Incidentally I think bacon Brie chilli jam sounds a revolting combination! But I do like sweet chilli jam on crushed avocado on toast.....

In the case of any true dislike, let alone allergy, IMO you need to make it crystal clear when ordering.

A sister really can’t bear butter, so whenever eating out she has to stress no butter on vegetables, or in the case of e.g. pan fried fish, not fried in butter.

I really dislike cream, so have so often said ‘No cream thank you’ when ordering a pudding, only almost invariably to be told that they’d always ask anyway.

The one time I didn’t say it, whatever I’d ordered came swimming in a lake of cream!
It really grieved me to have to send it back, only for it to very likely be wasted. (I just hope one of the staff ate it!)

I do hope you don't run any sort of eatery Witzend; you seem to put the customer very low down your list of priorities. It's quite reasonable to expect butter on the bun or cream on a pudding and so be able to say you don't want them but how can you second guess the chilli jam?

I guess I have to be glad I limit my eating out. I already feel I am annoying in my needs just think how upsetting have just a preference must be for the poor staff.

have

There probably aren't many of us who would automatically expect to find chilli jam on a bacon a brie sandwich, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find cranberry sauce. I guess it was this particular chef's take on his style of bacon & brie. Although, as the OP has stated, there was no menu available at the time, as they were behind getting them out.

It's one thing to expect a restaurant to list what's in a sandwich, on a menu, but what about more complicated dishes? You only have to google a recipe to see that there are many different variations of the same dish. Some may have 5 ingredients, whilst others may have 10, or far more, for the same dish. I think it unrealistic to expect restaurants/pubs to list every single ingredient, for every single dish, from appetisers, to main courses, and desserts.

Hence the reason why, anyone with an allergy, intolerance, or dislike, for a particular food, should alert the staff/chef. And, as many posters have already stated, restaurants are now becoming more aware of the importance of food allergies, etc., and well trained staff tend to ask when you order, but if they don't you need to make them aware.

Were I in that position, I would see it as my responsibility to alert the staff/chef, as I realise that it is not practical for every single food ingredient, for every single dish, to be listed on their menus. That is not me being argumentative, or siding with the staff/chef, over the customer. That is me being reasonable, and taking responsibility for myself, and not expecting someone else to be responsible for me.

It really isn't difficult to do that, and far better than leaving things to chance.

Tesco’s have recalled ice lollies because the ingredients didn’t include Milk!

I think that it’s time that pubs and restaurants have to publish ingredients, my daughter wanted to make some cosmetics and every suppliers batch had to be sent to the labs to confirm the ingredients. To cant be tough on one sector and not another.

Sorry, the ingredients listed did not contain the word Milk

Were I in that position, I would see it as my responsibility to alert the staff/chef, as I realise that it is not practical for every single food ingredient, for every single dish, to be listed on their menus.

A bit of halo shining there. Of course you would and of course, those in that position, do. But don't you go out to enjoy yourself? That means a thoughtful and helpful staff, not ones who see the chef as the highest in the hierarchy and the customer as just a nuisance.

I would never think to ask when ordering a bacon and brie sandwich 'are you going to put chilli jam in that, if so can I have it without?' I have never heard of that combination. I do expect and bacon and brie sandwich to be just that, though the addition of cranberry could be expected as fairly traditional.

I would certainly be upset enough to decide I wouldn't eat there again, and I suspect that is not what the staff are aiming for (or maybe they are, perhaps I am not the right kind of customer?)

Eating out with a gluten intolerant couple I was amazed at how obliging the chef was. He came out to talk to them and discuss what was possible. We ordered the same dishes from the menu, but their meals looked slightly different and came with a flag indicating that they were the gluten free ones to avoid confusion.
On the subject of allergy or dislike, my DGD once explained to me that ‘Jack says he has to have Vimto in his water bottle because he’s allergic to water!’

As I said some days ago Mollygo - they are. I for one would not fault them although I still can't eat in some pubs where the food is not freshly prepared as it can't be adapted.

I have a feeling that those who are rebuffing the complaint about the "jam" either don't like customers or don't like people.

I'm lucky on the alergy/intolerance bit. I am very unlikely to die from eating something. On the other hand it will make me very ill. Generally, the staff are actually quite interested and want good person to person feedback so bend over backwards to help.

However, even on such a restricted diet I still have preferances and my money will be paying for the chefs preferance not mine, or any other customers, if we follow the thinking of some on this thread.

A friend who has been a coeliac all her life takes the view that it is up to her to check with the waiting staff, there are so many different sorts if allergies. My DGS is allergic to some nuts, hus parents have always checked with the staff.

Grannysyb I don't think anyone has said those who are ceoliac or suffer from food intolerances would not ask. Where has this idea come from? Or are you not reading the other posts?

PippaZ, no halo shining here. I'm genuinely interested, as a person yourself with food allergies/intolerance, please enlighten me on exactly what it is you expect from a chef/restaurant, and what you think I don't seem to grasp ...?

I have two posts on this thread, both simply giving my opinion, that I think people with allergies/intolerances/dislikes, should alert the staff/chef, as I feel it's impractical for a restaurant to list on their menu every single ingredient for every single dish.

I do appreciate that it is now law for food manufacturers to list ingredients on their packaging and, as they make the same product, in vast quantities, this is quite easy for them to do, and reasonable to expect. However, many of us appreciate that being a chef usually comes with a certain amount of creative license, it's what a chef does, and they often like to fiddle about with their recipes. This makes it nigh on impossible for their menus to be printed with all the correct ingredients. Hence the importance for alerting the chef to any intolerances/allergies/dislikes, before your food is prepared. No chef would want a customer to be ill (or worse!), after eating in his restaurant, so should be more than happy to discuss a customers requirements. I fail to see why you seem to think that approach is unacceptable?

From your comment ...

"However, even on such a restricted diet I still have preferances and my money will be paying for the chefs preferance not mine, or any other customers, if we follow the thinking of some on this thread." ...

I can only assume you would prefer to stifle the creative license of a chef, in which case it would probably be better to eat at home.

I have recently noticed that all takeaways here, both in the shop and on their websites, have notices advising those with food allergies to alert staff before ordering.

When my son was very young, people (even my GP) were not really aware of the seriousness of food allergies. My son's Epipen had to be ordered by the hospital, from the USA at an exhorbitant cost.

My GP soon changed his mind when his own daughter suffered anaphylaxis after eating a nutty sweet, finches from a box of Milk Tray. I pointed out that as both he and his wife were doctors, at least she had a fighting chance of getting immediate help, my son didn't!!

I used to spend hours in the supermarket, scrutinising the ingredients. He had the blandest and most boring diet imaginable. ?

WE always took the responsibility to ensure on the rare occasions we ate out, what we knew exactly he was eating. It became a standing family joke, that when abroad all he ever ate was spaghetti solo.

Marydoll, more takeaways here seem to be doing that too. It encourages people to ask.
A couple of those we use also have a coloured asterisk with a note which saying that they cannot guarantee * dishes will not have been in contact with or contain nuts.
One DGS is lactose intolerant. He also ate spaghetti ‘with nothing’.

We always phone ahead before we book, if any of our party have any allergies, we have several vegetarians in our family and want to make sure that they don’t get stuck with omelette and salad.
Almost all the restaurants and hotels that we have stayed and eaten in have only been too happy to cook a special meal for 4 vegetarians and one with a lactose allergy, the ones that won’t, we don’t go to.

I think the issue’s pretty straightforward if you have no allergies, like the OP. Unless stipulated otherwise on the menu, you ask for a bacon and brie sandwich, you should get a sandwich with bacon and brie in it. No chilli jam, cranberry sauce or mint jelly on the whim of a creative chef.

When my DC had holiday jobs at Subway, their payslips described them as sandwich artists. That didn’t give them artistic licence to embellish whatever their customers ordered.

Nansnet

*PippaZ*, no halo shining here. I'm genuinely interested, as a person yourself with food allergies/intolerance, please enlighten me on exactly what it is you expect from a chef/restaurant, and what you think I don't seem to grasp ...?

I have two posts on this thread, both simply giving my opinion, that I think people with allergies/intolerances/dislikes, should alert the staff/chef, as I feel it's impractical for a restaurant to list on their menu every single ingredient for every single dish.

I do appreciate that it is now law for food manufacturers to list ingredients on their packaging and, as they make the same product, in vast quantities, this is quite easy for them to do, and reasonable to expect. However, many of us appreciate that being a chef usually comes with a certain amount of creative license, it's what a chef does, and they often like to fiddle about with their recipes. This makes it nigh on impossible for their menus to be printed with all the correct ingredients. Hence the importance for alerting the chef to any intolerances/allergies/dislikes, before your food is prepared. No chef would want a customer to be ill (or worse!), after eating in his restaurant, so should be more than happy to discuss a customers requirements. I fail to see why you seem to think that approach is unacceptable?

From your comment ...

"However, even on such a restricted diet I still have preferances and my money will be paying for the chefs preferance not mine, or any other customers, if we follow the thinking of some on this thread." ...

I can only assume you would prefer to stifle the creative license of a chef, in which case it would probably be better to eat at home.

"I can only assume you would prefer to stifle the creative license of a chef, in which case it would probably be better to eat at home."

^“I see
In many an eye that measures me
The mortal sickness of a mind
Too unhappy to be kind.
Undone with misery, all they can
Is to hate their fellow man;^

I think this is muddying the waters calling it an allergy issue - it wasnt .
It was just a get something you didnt like nor expect with your order.

In which case I think it reasonable to say so and ask for a replacement without the added item - in this case a plain sandwich with no chilli jam.
Before devouring the sandwich of course - can't eat all of it then ask for replacement.

Outcome from staff might have been different if you hadn't eaten all the sandwich before speaking up and if you hadn't made it an allergy issue when it wasn't.

I couldn't agree more, AussieNanna. If you can't eat something, then alert the chef, and if you don't like certain foods, simply ask exactly what it's served/garnished with. It really is that simple. And it means that everyone, those with specific requirements, and those with none, can all enjoy their food.

Denying a chef the right to experiment with their dishes, and expecting them never to deviate from an original recipe, in order that they would be able to list every ingredient they use, would certainly lead to a very boring experience, both for the chef, and for many of us who enjoy sampling different dishes, and enjoy eating out.

I wonder if the likes of Gordon Ramsay, Daniel Boulud and Marco Pierre White, et al, would've become the great chefs they are today, had they never been allowed to experiment with their recipes, on a whim, to delight their customers, as they often do.

Surely, everyone deserves to enjoy the experience of eating out in restaurants. That means both those customers who are lucky to be able to be adventurous with their food choices, and those customers who have to be careful about what they eat.

Even if all ingredients were listed on a menu, I would still think it sensible that those people with allergies/intolerances would still check, just to be on the safe side, or would some still leave it to chance? But, perhaps that's just me, wanting to be responsible for my own health, and not expect others to take the guess work out of it.

Great quote PippaZ.

I didn’t think you were after stifling the creative LICENCE of chefs either.

No Lucca and thank you. But what a horrible thing to say to someone who is already struggling to eat out that "it would probably be better to eat at home."

The whole chilli jam thing is daft in my opinion. If he’s being experimental and creative that’s great but he should mention it.
If a bacon sandwich is just that, fine. Otherwise you list it as a bacon sandwich with chilli jam, avocado foam, and a chestnut reduction or whatever.

PippaZ

No Lucca and thank you. But what a horrible thing to say to someone who is already struggling to eat out that "it would probably be better to eat at home."

Absolutely! I have a good friend who has various intolerances so much so that if I ate one of those foods and then kissed him goodbye he would be very ill. It’s no laughing matter