Potential allergy issue at local pub

PippaZ No one on this thread, as far as I know is from GNHQ - the only ones with power to direct when it comes to the way a thread goes. Working with small children does not give you leave to tell others what and how to post as if they were small children - that's just bad manners.

I'm assume that this is directed at me, but I'm not quite sure exactly what it's supposed to mean.. As far as I understand, these threads are here for everyone to have discussions and lively debates. Not everyone has the same opinion, and often posters disagree. When someone posts a question, it follows that others will engage in the discussion, and either agree, or disagree. What would be the point of a forum if no one was allowed to have a differing view/opinion? I've had many discussions with posters, sometimes we have the same views, sometimes not, but I've never felt the need to directly insult them with petty remarks.

I have in no way tried to direct the way a thread goes. I have merely given my own opinion, like many others who have done the same. Your comment, '^working with small children does not give you leave to tell others what and how to post as if they were small children^ ... seems to have been deliberately misconstrued, as nowhere in my posts have I told others what and how to post as if they were small children.

My remark was merely stating the fact that, having worked with some children who have severe food allergies, and having witnessed one of them going into anaphylactic shock, as well as having a DiL with a food intolerance, a husband who is diabetic, and a DD who runs her own business within the food industry I am totally aware of the seriousness that having food allergies/intolerances/specific food requirements entails.

Ro60

Ok thank you nansnet I stand corrected. But the fact these safe guards are in place is a good start in acknowledging people's allergies & intolerance.
Especially with the increase in these conditions in recent years.

Ro60 I quite agree. People buying food items from a shop/supermarket need to know what's in it, and as it's not possible to ask a member of staff exactly what the ingredients are in all of the produce they sell. Unlike in a restaurant, where food is generally cooked to order, and you are able discuss your requirements with a member of staff/chef. Hence the importance of businesses making sure all their staff are fully trained.

Ok thank you nansnet I stand corrected. But the fact these safe guards are in place is a good start in acknowledging people's allergies & intolerance.
Especially with the increase in these conditions in recent years.

Current information from Food Standards Agency.

When you eat out or order a takeaway, the restaurant or café must provide you with allergen information in writing. This could be, for example, allergen information on their menu or a prompt explaining how you can obtain this information. This may include advice that you ask a member of staff about the allergen contents of a dish you might want to order.

If you come across a business that is not meeting allergen guidance requirements you can make a report by using our report a food problem form.

I agree with AussieNanna that the OP's issue was not basically an alergy one. However, that was how she asked the question and that did create an extended conversation which some posters chose to carry on.

No one on this thread, as far as I know is from GNHQ - the only ones with power to direct when it comes to the way a thread goes. Working with small children does not give you leave to tell others what and how to post as if they were small children - that's just bad manners.

Ro60, I think you'll find that Natasha's Law (which I believe comes into force in October 2021), covers pre-packaged for direct sale food, such as sandwiches/salads/etc., which have to be labeled with a full list of ingredients/allergens. Currently, as far as I'm aware, other businesses such as pubs, restaurants and takeaways, are not directly affected in the same way by the law. Although, they are recommended that they all provide allergen information for their customers, and they have been advised of the importance for all staff to be fully trained on food ingredients and allergens.

Nansnet in 2021 Natashas Law was put in place. It requires all eateries to provide a Full list of ingredients

"I couldn't agree more, AussieNanna. If you can't eat something, then alert the chef, and if you don't like certain foods, simply ask exactly what it's served/garnished with. It really is that simple. And it means that everyone, those with specific requirements, and those with none, can all enjoy their food."

Or even after you get something with an addition you do not like and did not expect, say so and ask for a replacement

Don't make it about allergies when it isn't.

PippaZ,After reading back through previous posts, I am happy in the knowledge that I have not deemed it necessary to make derogatory comments about your posts & opinions. And, apart from my 'best to stay at home' remark, for which I have been a big girl and apologised, I have not felt it necessary to make petty jibes/insults directed at you. Unlike you have felt it necessary to do to me.

It's been said many times before on this forum, that these boards are all about lively debates and discussions, with a wide variety of differing opinions, and there's absolutely no need to resort to petty insults and derogatory comments.

On that note, I have far more interesting things to be getting on with on a Friday afternoon. I wish everyone and enjoyable weekend.

Play nicely everyone!

I have not told anyone how they should behave. My opinion is just that, it's what I would do were I in that situation, and it's what I think would be the sensible thing to do. I said what I said because the OP hadn't made the waitress aware of her requirements, so I merely thought it would be sensible to make the waitress aware of that. I fail to see why you have been so critical of my opinion when you have, in fact, stated yourself that that is what people in your situation do anyway. So, aren't we basically in agreement?

I have worked with children, some who have had severe food allergies, and I've been witness to a child going into anaphylactic shock, and required his epipen to be administered. My DiL has a food intolerance and needs to be very careful when eating out. My husband is diabetic, and eating out can be a challenge. And my DD runs her own business within the food industry. I base my opinions on the knowledge that I have, and totally realise the seriousness for people who have allergies/intolerances/specific food requirements. So, again, I don't know why you have been so critical of my opinion, which to me, seems very reasonable.

You've also stated how helpful you find restaurant staff to be, so again, I fail to see what your issue is. You did make a previous comment about how some people with allergies/intolerances are treated not so well by staff, and perhaps, going back to the OP, this is an example. However, the OP was served a sandwich with a relish she didn't like and wasn't expecting. She waited until she had scoffed the whole sandwich before bringing it to the attention of the waitress, and then went on to question her about what if she'd had an allergy. The waitress quite rightly (in my opinion) said that they expected customers to make them aware of any allergies in advance. As this is something that people with allergies apparently do anyway, the waitress would've relayed the information to the chef, and the OP wouldn't have had the chilli jam on her bacon & brie. So the situation wouldn't have arisen would it? In an ideal world, the waitress probably should've responded with an apology, and told the customer that if she dined with them again, she would make sure not to include any food she didn't like ... as long as she was made aware of it when ordering.

In response to your following comments ...

PippaZ"Oh and if the difference of opinion you refer to is putting customers before staff - I'll stick to mine thank you very much."

I honestly have no idea why you think that, as it's absolutely not the case.

PippaZ"What I said was deliberate you seem to be completely unaware of how rude, at the very least, you are being."

I assume you are referring to my comment about staying at home? Even though you say that staff are very helpful, you seem to find eating out a challenge, and extremely stressful. Apologies for my thoughtlessness, and inadvertent rudeness ...

PippaZ"What I said was deliberate you seem to be completely unaware of how rude, at the very least, you are being."

But I guess it's OK to be deliberately rude, particularly when you don't agree with someone?

We all have different opinions, which we are entitled to, and often, when someone doesn't agree with your opinion they deliberately misconstrue what are saying.

Nansnet:
Perhaps, like myself, you should also consider the way in which you make comments to people, and try to accept that not everyone has the same opinion as yourself.

But you haven't. Far from it. Why did you decide it was your job to tell those with allergies or intolerances how they should behave? Why do that when every one of them who came on this thread had already said that is what they do and, in my case and others, just how helpful the staff have been?

Why did you then need to say they should do this because it is what you - who doesn't seem to have the same challenges - would do as That is me being reasonable, and taking responsibility for myself, and not expecting someone else to be responsible for me. when everyone who actually lives this life had already described just how they responsibly handle the situation?

Why did you think it was right to tell someone they should stay at home if they don't (when they have already posted that they do) conform to what you have told them?

In fact: who made you the police in this case?

What I said was deliberate you seem to be completely unaware of how rude, at the very least, you are being.

Oh and if the difference of opinion you refer to is putting customers before staff - I'll stick to mine thank you very much.

Perhaps the law has changed since 24 March 2021 ...?

Ro60, from the UK government website ...

Labelling requirements
Currently, food businesses are not required by law to provide a full ingredients list. The requirement is to provide information about the use of allergenic ingredients in a food. ... In such situations, a statement must be included on food menus, chalkboards, food order tickets or food labels.24 Mar 2021

“ and should have to list every ingredient in order that you can be safe in the knowledge that what you've ordered will have no adverse effects on you”

It’s the law.

PippaZ, I was merely trying to make a point, perhaps not in the most eloquent way, that if someone with allergies/intolerances, like yourself, expects that chefs should never deviate, and should have to list every ingredient in order that you can be safe in the knowledge that what you've ordered will have no adverse effects on you, that may not be the safest thing to do, so it would probably best to stay at home ... to be on the safe side!

My first post was clearly not argumentative, but you accused me of being so. I'd simply stated my opinion, which is the same opinion as many other posters here. But, I assume, because it differs from your opinion, I am wrong.

In another post, you snidely remark that I must have a shining halo, simply because I said that I would consider it my responsibility to alert staff/chef to my specific requirements, and not see it as the chefs responsibility to have all ingredients listed on menus. Again, that is my opinion, which obviously differs from yours.

Perhaps, like myself, you should also consider the way in which you make comments to people, and try to accept that not everyone has the same opinion as yourself.

Since 2014 it is the law for restaurants to list all ingredients.

Or, as I suggested a long way back, put it in one of those little dishes on the side and allow the customer to make up their minds.

For a lunchtime sandwich it sounds a bit over-egged to me .

I should have put it earlier - apologies to Housman. He was sad enough in that poem without me making it worse.

PippaZ

No Lucca and thank you. But what a horrible thing to say to someone who is already struggling to eat out that "it would probably be better to eat at home."

Absolutely! I have a good friend who has various intolerances so much so that if I ate one of those foods and then kissed him goodbye he would be very ill. It’s no laughing matter

The whole chilli jam thing is daft in my opinion. If he’s being experimental and creative that’s great but he should mention it.
If a bacon sandwich is just that, fine. Otherwise you list it as a bacon sandwich with chilli jam, avocado foam, and a chestnut reduction or whatever.

No Lucca and thank you. But what a horrible thing to say to someone who is already struggling to eat out that "it would probably be better to eat at home."

Great quote PippaZ.

I didn’t think you were after stifling the creative LICENCE of chefs either.

I couldn't agree more, AussieNanna. If you can't eat something, then alert the chef, and if you don't like certain foods, simply ask exactly what it's served/garnished with. It really is that simple. And it means that everyone, those with specific requirements, and those with none, can all enjoy their food.

Denying a chef the right to experiment with their dishes, and expecting them never to deviate from an original recipe, in order that they would be able to list every ingredient they use, would certainly lead to a very boring experience, both for the chef, and for many of us who enjoy sampling different dishes, and enjoy eating out.

I wonder if the likes of Gordon Ramsay, Daniel Boulud and Marco Pierre White, et al, would've become the great chefs they are today, had they never been allowed to experiment with their recipes, on a whim, to delight their customers, as they often do.

Surely, everyone deserves to enjoy the experience of eating out in restaurants. That means both those customers who are lucky to be able to be adventurous with their food choices, and those customers who have to be careful about what they eat.

Even if all ingredients were listed on a menu, I would still think it sensible that those people with allergies/intolerances would still check, just to be on the safe side, or would some still leave it to chance? But, perhaps that's just me, wanting to be responsible for my own health, and not expect others to take the guess work out of it.

I think this is muddying the waters calling it an allergy issue - it wasnt .
It was just a get something you didnt like nor expect with your order.

In which case I think it reasonable to say so and ask for a replacement without the added item - in this case a plain sandwich with no chilli jam.
Before devouring the sandwich of course - can't eat all of it then ask for replacement.

Outcome from staff might have been different if you hadn't eaten all the sandwich before speaking up and if you hadn't made it an allergy issue when it wasn't.

Nansnet

*PippaZ*, no halo shining here. I'm genuinely interested, as a person yourself with food allergies/intolerance, please enlighten me on exactly what it is you expect from a chef/restaurant, and what you think I don't seem to grasp ...?

I have two posts on this thread, both simply giving my opinion, that I think people with allergies/intolerances/dislikes, should alert the staff/chef, as I feel it's impractical for a restaurant to list on their menu every single ingredient for every single dish.

I do appreciate that it is now law for food manufacturers to list ingredients on their packaging and, as they make the same product, in vast quantities, this is quite easy for them to do, and reasonable to expect. However, many of us appreciate that being a chef usually comes with a certain amount of creative license, it's what a chef does, and they often like to fiddle about with their recipes. This makes it nigh on impossible for their menus to be printed with all the correct ingredients. Hence the importance for alerting the chef to any intolerances/allergies/dislikes, before your food is prepared. No chef would want a customer to be ill (or worse!), after eating in his restaurant, so should be more than happy to discuss a customers requirements. I fail to see why you seem to think that approach is unacceptable?

From your comment ...

"However, even on such a restricted diet I still have preferances and my money will be paying for the chefs preferance not mine, or any other customers, if we follow the thinking of some on this thread." ...

I can only assume you would prefer to stifle the creative license of a chef, in which case it would probably be better to eat at home.

"I can only assume you would prefer to stifle the creative license of a chef, in which case it would probably be better to eat at home."

^“I see
In many an eye that measures me
The mortal sickness of a mind
Too unhappy to be kind.
Undone with misery, all they can
Is to hate their fellow man;^

I think the issue’s pretty straightforward if you have no allergies, like the OP. Unless stipulated otherwise on the menu, you ask for a bacon and brie sandwich, you should get a sandwich with bacon and brie in it. No chilli jam, cranberry sauce or mint jelly on the whim of a creative chef.

When my DC had holiday jobs at Subway, their payslips described them as sandwich artists. That didn’t give them artistic licence to embellish whatever their customers ordered.

We always phone ahead before we book, if any of our party have any allergies, we have several vegetarians in our family and want to make sure that they don’t get stuck with omelette and salad.
Almost all the restaurants and hotels that we have stayed and eaten in have only been too happy to cook a special meal for 4 vegetarians and one with a lactose allergy, the ones that won’t, we don’t go to.