To think that a trend is starting here

Sorry that first paragraph should have read MH issues, not MS - bloody predictive text !!

A few posters on here are suggesting that having a disability - be it physical or a mental health issue - which periodically interferes with your ability to do your job, means you should ‘leave and find something else’. I thought that in the 21st century we’d moved away from attitudes like these. Disabled people have specific skills just like other people and to suggest that we don’t utilise people’s talents just because they may have problems in sustaining their performance, is short sighted at best. These same people are expressing support for Simone Biles and others who have found it necessary to withdraw from the games because of MS issues. How is it that any different from someone who has periodic issues at work ?

The problem is that there is no targeted support for people with disabilities in the workplace any more - various government departments used to be involved in providing support so that people with disabilities could work in open industry, and those who couldn’t, worked in sheltered conditions. This meant that people with disabilities who were new to the workplace were given targeted support to help them find and retain suitable work. People who became disabled were help to either adapt and retain their employment or retrain. Those who couldn’t work in open industry found work in sheltered conditions which gave them a cushioned environment in which to be as productive as they could. Then along came the Tories, the help dwindled and the sheltered workshops were deemed a waste of resources and closed. Now most of the support is left to charities with the DWP taking care of the basics like fares to work and modifications to premises - even that is minimal with strict qualifying conditions. If we leave the disabled community behind we lose a wealth of talent and we condemn people to feeling useless in addition to the problems their conditions cause on a daily basis. How hard is it to support and encourage, instead of whining that you have a bit more work to do if someone goes off sick ? I had this problem myself and was ‘encouraged’ to take a less stressful role in the same organisation. If I hadn’t , the consequence probably would have involved a visit to the Jobcentre.

I have spoken about my close friend before so am sorry if you have heard this before, she has complex mental health issues, she works for a charity, her skills and ability in her job are in my view partly due to her own experiences, there are times when she becomes very ill and needs to be off work. I would guess that many of her colleagues do not possess the skills she has. Organisations often have the foresight to balance support with recognising the skills people can bring to a role.

...and I am neither naming nor hinting at any particular person.

You are though.

I'm sorry about your MH problems Germanshepherdsmum, but you are being very dismissive of people whose problems present differently from yours.

Thank you Gill57. I’m not dismissive of genuine problems. I’ve had clinical depression for many years but I have medication, mostly it keeps the black dog docile, and whilst I’m open about it I don’t complain about it, take my medicine, have a regular GP check up and get on with life. Yes I have had to have a stiff upper lip in order to continue in my career rather than dissolve into a weeping mess (and no, I’m not suggesting anyone posting or mentioned here is or has been a weeping mess). Mortgage to pay, dearly loved child to feed and clothe, obligations to clients, colleagues, said child and other family excellent incentives, giving up absolutely not an option and in fact those drivers were highly beneficial. Sitting at home in these circumstances, dwelling on things, is not a good thing. I’ve seen at first hand the very negative consequences of someone doing that. The point I have been trying to make throughout is the great difference between those who have real mental health problems which need understanding, support and treatment, and those who do not but use them as an excuse. These people exist and I am neither naming nor hinting at any particular person. Living with depression, or with someone who has it, gives one a fairly good radar I assure you. Other mental health conditions are, regrettably, available.

Kate1949

I suppose it's all relevant isn't it? If I see someone going to pieces over something which seems minor to me, I find myself wondering why they are in such a state but it's serious to them.

The point being that none of us know what has lead to the final straw

I suppose it's all relevant isn't it? If I see someone going to pieces over something which seems minor to me, I find myself wondering why they are in such a state but it's serious to them.

You and I I think Doodledog, as lacking in compassion and empathy as we apparently are despite our own experiences. Frankly I have better things to do than keep up this futile argument, though obviously some people have plenty of appetite for it and can even spend time looking up statistics of people who have joined the forces. Simone Biles perhaps proves my point that no matter how good you may be at something, if mentally you can’t handle the pressure for whatever reason you should accept that you need to do something else, or work at a different level, rather than let others down, a decision I think Kate probably made given her colleague’s comments about lack of ambition; her ambitions lay in a different direction and good for her. Admitting to real mental health issues isn’t easy.

Brave and kind posts Kate1949 and WW, thank you. Germanshepherdsmum I am sorry you have suffered with mental health problems for many years, but dare I say it, you are not very understanding of other people's problems, and come across as rather 'stiff upper lip' to the point of being rather dismissive. I fail to see the relevance of your comments about young people and wartime suffering of our grandparents generation, mainly because I truly dislike generational prejudice. Yes, there are undoubtedly some people who will cite mental health problems as their reason for not doing something, but they have always been with us, the same as the perpetual 'bad back' sufferers. Again, I am sorry you have had these problems.

It might interest some people to know that it was unsafe for Simone Biles to continue.

Which people?

Sorry Lucca/Bluebelle.
I got the wrong end of the stick.
I meant it is such a shame someone couldn`t take her place.

My dad was the life and soul of the party and loved by everyone when he was out and about, unfortunately that's characteristic of someone who is bi-polar. The public never saw the other side of him, his depression. He self medicated with alcohol until he had a major breakdown and required hospitalisation. Even after that when he was on major drug treatment and had electric shock treatment he was still sociable sometimes. Few people knew bout his real MHP.
No one can judge another persons mental health by their behaviour. Attending the Olympic Games must be a stressful experience and this year even more. It's better to recognise you have a problem and seek help than just to carry on until you collapse.

Can anyone imagine any reason for Simone Biles to pull out other than her own genuine concerns for her mental health? Laziness? Attention-seeking? I don’t think so.

Galaxy

Were you asleep Alegrias

Apparently ? ?

Were you asleep Alegrias

It might interest some people to know that it was unsafe for Simone Biles to continue.
Because of whatever has happened to her brain she has lost her Spatial awareness.
To see an athlete of her calibre dismounting from the parallel bar and falling flat on her back is very sad.

It is so good that someone like Simone Biles can say NO.....I cannot continue competing at the moment. In the past this would not have happened, and she may well have been forced to continue with disastrous life effecting physical damage.

It has happened in the past where gymnasts were told to 'pull themselves together' etc, - in one horrifically bad case meaning that a young woman ended up as a paraplegic.

For me, this has made Biles a great role model, not just for her own sport, not just for females in sport - but for all sportsman, at all levels, who now know that they have ultimate control.

That to Germanshepherdsmum

Is this really just another dig at M&H?

When my brother was struggling with his mental health (which sadly didn't end well) I'm ashamed to say I found him very difficult. I used to get annoyed with him and tell him to sort himself out. I couldn't understand it at all. Oh how I regret that.
I would just add that, as I now believe was the case with my brother, sometimes terrible things happen to people which they are too ashamed or scared to tell anyone about. It can go on to destroy them. Sorry if that's a bit 'heavy'.
I am fortunate that I have a husband and siblings who I can speak to. Doctors never been much help to be honest.

My mother didn’t operate in a compassion vacuum Moorlandmooner. She was the kindest person I’ve known. But she taught me the value of determination and it has served me well over the years. Of course not all mental health problems are caused by stress, and I have never suggested that they are, though that is what this thread is about. Of course someone can sit quietly and wish they were dead without anyone knowing, I have done that many times and I’m sure Kate has but if someone says they were weeping for some considerable time and then suddenly emerges with a full face of makeup and false lashes miraculously intact I question the truth of what they say. Anyone who’s wept for the time alleged, with or without makeup, would question it. People who make less than credible statements like that devalue those who genuinely suffer and give ammunition to those who do not have genuine mental health problems but for whatever reason simply think this is a good way to get attention. It seems that no matter what I say I cannot get across the point that there are genuine sufferers who need support and treatment (and perhaps to work in an occupation which they can handle) and those who simply find mental health a convenient and fashionable bandwagon on which to jump. They do not further the cause of those with real issues which require support and treatment, quite the reverse.

I think the terminology around these problems need to be broadened.
'Mental health' has become a catch-all word covering, as in this instance, the effects of persistent intense pressure as well as identifiable and treatable clinical illness.

A few years ago we would have said, 's/he just can't take any more', or 'the pressure got too much'. This is now expressed in terms of 'mental health', without, I think, the sympathy felt being any different.

Kate1949

Exactly Whitewave. I'm glad you got help and that you feel better.

That was 20 years ago and I have never looked back?

What I do think is that depression take many forms. I would never have recognised that I was depressed as I was as far as I was concerned functioning perfectly ok - although sleep deprivation was a major factor.

No one should ever, ever stand in judgement over someone who says that they feel that they have mental health issues. You can’t possible know what is going on in their life.

Similar to your flatmate, MOnica (07.27), one of the friends I've mentioned above isn't emotionally up to a lot of things she doesn't want to do. But she is up to nightclubs, bars, outings she's driven on, overseas holidays. So while I feel bad for her in the ways she's restricted her life, I rolled my eyes at her most recent self diagnosed condition. I genuinely hope for her sake her marriage doesn't break down, because otherwise she'll be v poor and totally unemployable, never having worked.

timetogo2016

I agree Lucca,some poor soul would have loved the chance to be in the Olympics.

What do you agree with ? Certainly not me. Your comment shows a very narrow minded and intolerant attitude.

If you read what I said properly in answer to Monica…..