University degrees

Im glad Im no longer in the academic system. Its become a minefield with all this bl***y gender and non binery stuff and like walking on eggshells. Im a person of very strong opinions and Im sure I would no longer be welcome to express them. Even while I was in the uni system someone was disciplined for being "insufficiently anti racist"

What the hell is all that about?

The same can be said of corporate business - everyone tiptoeing around one another.

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Actually, education is a controversial subject itself. Some people think their degree is useless, and some people study by themselves. The choice is always up to you. So, eventually, I’ve come up to the conclusion that each profession is needed. You won’t find such a job that society doesn’t need. So, I think that education is necessary no matter who you want to become. Personally, I studied at www.praguefilminstitute.cz, and I love the job I do every day. Btw, I’m a filmmaker. So, I guess that education’s main purpose, whether formal or informal, is to be applied. If you can’t use your knowledge, they are dead. That’s how the world works.

I agree that education is a good thing in itself but not everyone is suited to book learning or formal instruction.

I would like to see apprenticeships valued in this country the way they are in some others - eg Germany. There has long been a judgemental attitude that young people went to technical college or did apprenticeships because they were not "bright" enough to go to uni. Many young people are gifted in a practical sense but just not academically inclined.

One of my great nephews earns a good living installing and fixing computer systems. By his own admission he is "not a good study" but has never encountered a computer he cannot repair so long as the bits are available. You dont need a degree to learn plumbing or electrics/electronics and these are good trades always in demand.

The first thing that struck me about university (and this was back in the mid 1980s) was how low the standard was. It has dumned down considerably since I did my degrees.

Less than 40% of students go on to university as far as I can discover? That means 60% don’t, so there are lots of people already going into apprenticeships, unskilled roles etc. I don’t think we should be criticising young people for making whatever choice suits them best personally, as most benefit hugely in terms of social skills and life experiences from the attending university, as well as getting their degree.

Yes there seems to be a proliferation of mickey mouse courses and employers looking for degrees for all kinds of jobs where training in the job would be much more useful.
Not every school leaver wants to go on to 3rd level, but most feel forced to nowadays. For others there is nothing in particular they want to study and they almost pick something out of a hat.

Apprenticeships and just old fashioned learning on the job should be given back some respect and prestige. That way school leavers will have more choice.

If you look at some traditional professions like librarianship, teaching, accountancy and others they had various routes to entry other than a degree. Some had their own systems of examinations which could be studied full or part time. This enabled people to gain their professional qualifications at a speed suited to their desires and other family or financial committments.

Then the polytechnics re-marketed themselves as micky mouse universities and offered degrees in a range of subjects not covered by the traditional universities. So you got a tranche of kids emerging clutching a bit of paper the existing employees did not have, and being preferred by short sighted employers. Existing career professionals were expected to mentor these youngsters (who had no practical experience) only to see them receive accelerated promotion after a few years.

Been there, done it, got the T shirt.

I later taught in the university system and am sorry to say that many home grown undergraduates (not those to whom English was a second language) were semi literate by my standards. I was told off for marking too harshly.

Regardless A level results, going away to university is not for everyone! Many students are unhappy for a variety of reasons , parents are often unaware of how their ' child ' is feeling. Even if they know their son/ daughter is struggling emotionally the university is not able to contact parents to discuss the situation because of student confidentiality. Many students of course throughly enjoy university life!

Back in the 1960s many professions, including law and accountancy as well as engineering had multiple paths of entry according to your level of education.

This is true. I qualified in a profession (librarianship) by taking the internal examinations. By the late 1970s the old polytechnics had re-branded themselves as "new" universities and were scraping around for courses to offer which were different than the traditional universities. So they began to offer degrees in accountancy, library science and education. Young people emerged with no idea or experience of practical work but they were clutching a bit of paper we did not have. Unfortunately short sighted employers took these degrees at face value. Experienced staffers were expected to mentor these kids, only to see them promoted over their heads after a few years. It happened in a number of professions, not just in librarianship.

I left my career in my early 40s to return to education and do a degree in a RG university. I would not have considered one of the fake ones. I left behind experienced and well qualified colleagues who were subsequently made redundant. Needless to say I never returned to the profession and chose a different route. The "University experience" was useful to me in many ways. I often wonder if I would have achieved the same if I had gone as an 18 year old. Being older I was so much more ambitious.

In many EU countries and Switzerland, proper, 3 to 4 year apprenticeships, with 1 or 2 days at college and proper work placements (not making tea and sweeping!) are still highly respected, and there are clear routes to switch to a more academic Degree along the route.

Trisher I was going to mention the raising of the school leaving ade. I was working at the the time and Ihought it was done because of the growing shortage of jobs for school leavers. And apprenticeships
So keep them off the streets and out of trouble for a couple more years.

I do hate this concept that taxpayers shouldn't fund further education because it is a waste of time. It's exactly the same argument that was used every time the school leaving age was raised. How many of you now would like to see children leaving school at 14? Education is never wasted although it may not be appreciated at the time. In a civilised society we should be able to support anyone wishing to expand their education, change career or embark on another path without it costing them the earth. I have friends who left school without any qualifications and were able to take degrees later in life because there was proper funding. They became excellent and valued social workers, teachers, lecturers and health workers who brought experience to the job. Most of them look at what happens today and say they really couldn't do it now because of the lack of support and the cost. Valuable people are lost because of the financial demands. It's simply bad for society.

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Yeah, that's right. When I was studying, I tried to take exams just for college, but now you need licenses, certificates and different documents. My daughter has decided to go to iunajaf.edu.iq for level 3 to get the license she needs for her job, because she plans to stay with her employer. I know that now it is the norm, but many students work off their free education by staying in a foreign country. No, my child made that choice, I just wonder if anyone has travelled so far from home. I didn't know they could do that before and she applied online and managed to get on a budget

Come to think of it my brother has a degree in maths but is a television producer. I forget about the maths degree because he went in such a different direction after he graduated. He's also very musical, as are his children.

I agree about maths and music. My DH has always loved mathematics and has a Phd in engineering. He goes up to a piano and just plays it, both hands, with no lessons or training whatsoever. I am jealous! He plays a pretty mean ukulele, too and mouth organ. I'm a better singer, that's my only consolation!

Monica Re: Maths & Music: Well known, yet the our family have struggled with the school curriculum which didn't allow for this. You couldn't take science And music!
Whether this has improved now I don't know. DDs now both 30+ .

That's interesting. Thanks MOnica

Maths and Music have always been linked. www.themusiciansbrain.com/?p=3648

Hedy Lamarr had a patent for frequency hopping, which was ignored by the powers that be during the war. Although it could have been used to intercept torpedoes before they reached their targets. It's now the basis on which WiFi, gps and Bluetooth operate.

I suppose there is a significant element of creative thinking in both. Wasn't the actress Hedy Lamarr responsible for some major scientific breakthrough?

Our family have a history of members with feet in science and performing arts. DH started with degrees in engineering and had a successful engineering career, but along side it always ran his passion for opera, performing and producing. After he retired he did a BA and MMus in Opera Studies.

Wow that's a big change in direction from Drama and broadcasting to Science and Technology. Your daughter is obviously very versatile.

It is better to get a First in a subject you really enjoy and can talk enthusiastically about in interviews than a third in a subject you do not like and only did because you thought it would help you get a job.

No education is ever wasted and can come in in useful at the most surprising times..

DD did an OU degree in STEM subjects in her 40s and has started a new career in science and technology. This week she was suddenly transferred to another department who had won a contract with a communications company because she started her professional life with a degree in acting and worked in broadcasting for some years and they wanted someone on the team with knowledge of the industry.

Katie59

Education for its own sake is fine if you can afford it, take a degree course at 60 that is not related to any employment ambitions.
At 18 yrs a qualification related to employment is highly desirable, it enables you to pay the rent and buy food, the alternative is sponging off a parent or the state.

A lot of degrees teach you how to analyse, research, think critically, question the status quo etc and those are greatly valuable skills in many areas.

However much of what you learn on the job is also very important including judgment and people and management skills.

There are so many different ways to learn and develop within the Labour Market. And there are so many different types of people entering the Labour Market.
Making entry to third level the norm, cutting off many other avenues to jobs and then changing the nature of universities to make up for that is skewed and very expensive thinking.