To think we should let scientific advisers advise?

M0nica,

well done for fighting your corner when there are so many on here who do not even get what you are saying but put words in your mouth. Good that you have a balanced view and do your own research.

M0nica

Agree with you wholeheartedly. Chris Whitty's opinion is his interpretation of the medical facts whereas as you say M0nica there are other equally valid and credible interpretations but as these do not fit in with the current narrative they are not even given air time. Why anyone thinks he would make a good prime minister is beyond me! Just my opinion which I am allowed to have and state as many others do on this board.

You are also correct about the harmful effect that all of these constant threats of lockdown, warnings and prophets of doom and gloom are having on our economy, people's health [not just mental health]. When the supermarkets are empty because everyone is isolating [even if they're not ill] and the doctors and nurses who worked throughout the pandemic [sometimes without adequate protection and no vaccines ]lose their jobs because they are unwilling to take a vaccine that we now know is relatively ineffective and certainly does not protect against the Omicron variant and that little cafe or bar that you like goes under through lack of funding staff or business, or all normal services are under constraint etc, etc, then everyone will be complaining about the adverse effects of the government's measures.

We should foster natural immunity, and those of you who want to stay cloistered in your own little world for the time being, can do so without fear of catching a cold, flu, or the omicron variant. Besides testing not vaccines is the way to go, as we all know now that even if you've been triple jabbed you can still catch and carry covid, it's everywhere, it makes more sense to show regular tests not an out of date or ineffective vaccine passport. Many people also can show antibodies through natural immunity. Let them get on with their lives otherwise life as you knew it, will never come back and we will be stuck in a perpetual cycle of vaccinations and lockdowns and a total breakdown of society and morals where the only people to benefit will be the pharma companies.

I have often seen people who oppose restrictions say that "we have to learn to live with this disease." Surely that's what the restrictions are all about. Getting vaccinated, wearing masks in public areas, proving that you have had a negative test before you enter a crowd, making careful decisions about socialising when the infection rate is high, and generally being responsive to changes such as new variants... These things allow us to live with Covid, rather than the alternatives of locking the country down completely or seeing people dying like flies.

We can relax or tighten restrictions according to decreases or increases in the level of risk, and that way we can live with it.

I think that when people say "we must learn to live with it", what they often mean is "we must ignore it as if it has gone away."

Scientists have been trying to advise governments for years, sometimes it works aka about 30 years ago introducing the flu jab that people get every winter without even thinking why they are getting it. In another 30 years we will be getting vaccines/tablets to counter all sorts of virus strains that will spread due to our increasing amounts of travel, people moving to settle in new countries, working abroad and a whole host of reasons for diseases to spread. Science and research have now come out of the shadows and for once are being properly funded to keep us alive.

Totally agree.

If I was in the middle of a personal crisis I would wish for Chris Whitty to be around. He seems very level headed, sensible, straight talking intelligent and acting for the good of the nation. Boris on the other had is none of these, the more he says the more he confuses. I feel that Chris Whitty expressed exactly what a lot of us have been practising throughout, that we need to assess our personal risk and prioritise our contacts.
The South African situation is totally different to ours, population is younger, we do not know how this new variant reacts on vaccinated people, less vaccinated in SA but many have a built immunity. The South African lady “ expert “ who gets wheeled out is a doctor, clever lady I am sure but not a Covid expert and only one voice.

Good post Amalegra

I know who I'd believe m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10160205902572625&id=784877624

Really Monica?

'The media' are even more unelected than Whitty.
A bunch of journalists & tv pundits who produce alarmist headlines and general criticism about anything and everything, based on nothing but their wish to make money.

Would say that those MP's need to show respect to Chris Whitty. He is the voice of reason and expertise. They just need to shut up

I do believe that Chris Whitty’s advice and observations (for that, in a democracy, is what they should be!) is correct and wise. It is a decision that I myself, and most sensible people I should think, have already arrived at and are following. If our democratically elected government, however incompetent they are perceived to be, wish to reaffirm that, enshrine it in policy or law, that is another matter. As I see it, unelected officials dictating what should be law, is a very slippery slope indeed. Personally I think that Professor Whitty, mild mannered as he is, did no such thing; he was merely doing his job as an ADVISER. It has been blown up out of all perspective by the media I think-the fact it is even being debated shows that! Btw another thread moots that this gentleman should be a contender for PM. Now that really is a knee jerk reaction to an altogether different problem. There is a great deal more to being PM than Covid and ‘protecting the NHS’! It is a great pity that all the other serious problems we have in this country, (many of which are/will arise from the pandemic and will take decades to play out) do not receive the same attention.

Imo Chris Whitty is the calm, measured voice of reason and should be listened to and his advice followed. When I tune into the Covid broadcasts I tune in to hear what he has to say not Boris.
As a side issue I do wonder why he hasn't been awarded some sort of honour/gong as many others have.

I don't know how any politicians have the utter gall to criticize any scientist!!!! As if they know better! They're jealous simply put, they don't like anyone queering what they perceive to be their 'pitch' . They think they have a monopoly on telling us what to do ,good/bad/indifferent . I think they feel inadequate too as their reaction is akin to that of someone being soundly bout gunned in the intelligence dept!..... Not a difficult thing to achieve in itself but CW does it so effectively with so little effort.......

We all know he's right, of course, but Tory MPs have one eye on the economy too.

So by lambasting Whitty they can claim that the economy being harmed is not their fault, while avoiding responsibility for the health consequences of not taking care.

I am keeping an open mind until we have more precise figures to see if the scientific predictions based on statistic modelling are right. In the meantime I am doing everything to keep us safe and generally following Chris Whitty’s advice. I don’t think ‘banning’ Christmas will work as too many won’t do it for whatever reason. The rest will follow the advice.

It is possible to find pockets of information about unvaccinated deaths by coming across comments from medical professionals in news articles. From what I've seen, there are many.
I suppose the problem is that there appear to be quite a lot of people with reasons for not getting vaccinated that are to do with allergic and anaphylactic reactions to the vaccination itself. Some people are on medication or having treatment which also, I have read, means vaccination is not wise.
One wonders whether these people have gone through life avoiding all vaccination. Whatever, announcing unvaccinated death rates would encourage more division which is surely the last thing we need now.

PhilJaz

Chris Whitty and his colleagues on SAGE have been using totally inaccurate modelling since day one. None of their PREDICTIONS have come anywhere near to reality.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong about this, but surely the predictions were for what would happen if the government DIDN'T take action. The reason they have not come close to reality is that they DID take action, however ineptly. Mathematical modelling seems to have a bad press, but it is a very useful tool amongst others in situations such as this pandemic.

Tory policy will be dominated by their donors, Wetherspoons etc don't want to loose their Christmas taking, so thats what will prevail when the tories are in charge

Isn't prioritising to preserve Christmas exactly what our esteemed government told us to do last year? And lots of people did that, some schools closed early to try to protect kids' ability to see grandparents on Christmas Day and very many of us returned to very early lockdown rules for the same reason - so not sure why suddenly the advice has changed if, and I say if, the omicron threat is the same as the Kent variant threat this time last year.

Vaccination was heralded as the way back to a normal life by medical and scientific advisers. Unless and until there is evidence that omicron is causing greater harm than any other respiratory disease I think it’s perfectly reasonable for individuals to make their own risk assessment. Even before omicron, data was never given in the reports of daily deaths about how many of these were unvaccinated people. So far there has been one omicron death reported and despite being pressed the government has refused to say whether the individual was vaccinated or not. It seems to me they should be shouting from the rooftops about deaths attributable to non-vaccination as a wake up call to the anti vaxxers.

Raab's PPS Morrissey should be sacked for attacking Chris Whitty. It is a source of encouragement to loony anti-vaxxers to attack him physically. We have seen in North Shropshire what voters now really think of Johnson and his Brexiteer plonkers. Thank God for Whitty, Valence, JVT and the other experts despised pre-Brexit by Gove.

Care to give us the benefit of your obvious knowledge and experience?

Chris Whitty and his colleagues on SAGE have been using totally inaccurate modelling since day one. None of their PREDICTIONS have come anywhere near to reality.

growstuff

When I read posts such as yours MOnica, I really do despair. It's too early for me and I don't even know where to begin.

I agree he is only a medic with years of experience, not watching his own back and planning secret parties.{hmm]