You’re an intelligent woman Rosie. You know full well that the vaccine doesn’t prevent you from catching or spreading covid and that has always been made clear, and that the disposable masks many wear are quite flimsy and ill-fitting, and often reused many times.
Gransnet forums
AIBU
To think we should let scientific advisers advise?
(182 Posts)Well, well, well. Apparently Professor Chris Whitty has come under fire from Tory MPs after urging the public to scale back their plans before Christmas, with claims that medical advisers are “running the show” on Covid policy.
Tory MPs are said to have questioned the level of influence wielded by Prof Whitty
(I might question the level of competence by the same MPs, but there you go. )
Conservative backbenchers hit out at England’s Chief Medical Officer after he told the public to prioritise events that “really matter”, signalling that less important gatherings should be skipped to curb the spread of omicron.
Critics claimed Prof Whitty’s comments at the No 10 news conference on Wednesday evening were markedly stronger than the Prime Minister’s message.
It seems to me that “prioritising” is exactly what sensible people are or should be doing. Do we want to be with our families at Christmas or do we chance the pub quiz night? Office drinks party or seeing the children/grandchildren? Train to London to see the Christmas lights or give it a miss this year?
There is risk in everything, but it’s obvious to me that the alternatives to making sensible choices could be either a massive surge in infection and/or total lockdown.
Germanshepherdsmum
You’re an intelligent woman Rosie. You know full well that the vaccine doesn’t prevent you from catching or spreading covid and that has always been made clear, and that the disposable masks many wear are quite flimsy and ill-fitting, and often reused many times.
Yes of course I know it won’t totally prevent transmission but it will in most cases stop serious illness or worse
It’s now down to personal risk I was with one of my grandchildren yesterday they have since tested positive but this is no longer the great concern and worry it once was. I will avoid others for a while and test daily
There is a good chance we are all going to pick up Covid at some point unless we live in a bubble.
My faith in face masks has always been 50/50 unless you invest in a correctly fitting FFP2 mask
I assume you're fit and healthy Rosie. Many of us fear infection because we have 'underlying conditions' and are outside your 'most cases' group.
Germanshepherdsmum
I assume you're fit and healthy Rosie. Many of us fear infection because we have 'underlying conditions' and are outside your 'most cases' group.
Reasonably so don't take any medication visit the Dr every 15 years or so but not all in my family are the same and they also accept that short of shutting themselves away there are no quarentees
M0nica
Scientist like everyone else needs to live in the world as it is. Constant hectoring and insisting we introduce stricter and stricter controls, only works if people are prepared to believe what they are saying and eventually, if not handled properly pandemic fatigue sets in.
The fact of the matter is that all scientista are not in accord. We are getting a string of contradictory forecasts and warnings from at least half a dozen different cedible teams, at least politically and media credible, and 10s of forecasts from respectable, but less well touted teams.
We have now been under controls for getting on for two years and people are getting fed up and frustrated and feeling that the time has come when we should start learning to live with the disease and leave people to themselves to decide how they wish to respond to this threat. Those of you who at high risk, may well chose to continue to live a secluded lives, but did you do this before because of the danger of getting flu and other respiratory diseases that usually run rampant in winter? Those who wish to live a more free life, may be willing to take the risk.
As it is our hospitality, tourist, retail and cultural industries are being destroyed. Industries that employ millions of people, the economy is cutback and the government is paying out £ billions of borrowed money to sustain them. Money that will be very difficult to pay back if our economy does not thrive.
I can imagine nothing worse than having Chris Whitty as Prime Minister. He would be as bad as the current one, with his rigid inststence on numbers and absolutely no grasp of how normal people respond to constantly being placed under rigid government and presumably punished for every refraction. Peolple would be queueing in the streets to get through the courts and the army would be brought in to run temporary courts.
There is far more to government than giving clear directives. It is knowing how to give clear directives in a manner that people are prepared to take notice of. I doubt Chris Whitty would know where to begin.
I know this was a few days ago...but I agree. Put very well MOnica.
Chris Whitty is only looking at this from one angle. The government have to look at many angles.
It’s so hard. I wouldn’t have wanted to do it. Rocks and hard places spring to mind.
hectoring is the last word I would attribute to Chris Whitty.
Advice is one thing but when the Government sends it mixed messages such as 'work from home' but 'it's ok to go to an office party' who do we listen to?
Parties? This government couldn't organise a booze-up in a brewery.
Other leaders are listening to the scientific advice and making their own decisions, Sadiq Khan being the latest one to do so.
Sends out
What I heard Whitty say is that people are being cautious, on their own initiative, and he believes they are right to be so.
That is anything but 'hectoring'.
During the war people saw evidence of the Blitz, and newsreels of torpedoed merchant ships . There were food shortages. Young men and women were called up for the fighting services. All of this was visible evidence. People saw who the enemy was.
Many people don't actually believe in virus. The persuaders should commission a scfi or fantasy film or soap featuring viral invaders, and a hero doctor.
Not the bloody blitz again...
Elegran stop arguing with the convinced. Most of us are doing all the things you recommend.
But like it or not there are millions of people who are not on GN and have given up listening to this government or the scientists. Like all the people I saw in pubs and shops when I had to go to London yesterday.
How are you going to convince them, that they must keep to the rules. They have had their jabs, anyone they know wyho has had COVID has recovered quickly and they are fed up with all the restrictions.
What do you suggest?
Caleo, I doubt your idea would work, people are too sophisticated to fall for that kind of thing. It would be seen as government propaganda.
The problem now runs far deeper than just COVID. Most people see a deeply compromised and dishonest government who break their own rules with impunity. They do not see the Labour party as the answer, it still has not lived down the disaster that was the Corbyn ...... leadership seems a misnomer for his time at the head of the party.
Before you can start to get people as a whole to follow the advice from the government and government scientists, you need first to get in place a government with Integrity as its core principal. When you do that then the many millions ignoring the COVID rules could be persuaded to comply, and it is unlikely to happen anytime in the near future.
COVID plans, rules are now enmeshed in politics and politicians and indivisibly part of the bigger picture.
Chris Whitty is only looking at this from one angle.
Yes, of course he is, that's his job!
The government is giving out confused messages.
the government is giving out confused messages
Yes they are...but I believe any government would have done, which is exactly why I wouldn’t have wanted to do it.
As Monica says, people are fed up with it all. It doesn’t matter in the end, how many facts we are given. It’s down to personal choice, and what people believe.
There's a lot of Covid fatigue about. People feel that they've already missed out on (or scaled down) Christmas last year, so just won't be listening this time around. That's the selfish, childish majority, so the rest of us just have to be especially careful to protect ourselves, family and others.
I don't feel disillusioned with the government, though, or confused by their conflicting advice - but that's because I never had any faith in them (thought they were a complete bunch of clowns) in the first place.
Early last year, when they were making a total mess of things (too little, too late) I was far more interested in Sage, BMJ etc. for information and looked at what was happening in other countries, especially in Europe.
We're still in the middle of a pandemic (well, two really, Delta and Omicron) and realistically, just waiting to see how bad things will be in January/February. It doesn't look good, does it?
Why do we all moan about missing Christmas? How many of us are practising Christians? How many go to church?
What people are moaning about is missing the parties and booze and frivolities that we associate with Christmas.
We can see our families and party when it is safe.
Yammy
Why do we all moan about missing Christmas? How many of us are practising Christians? How many go to church?
What people are moaning about is missing the parties and booze and frivolities that we associate with Christmas.
We can see our families and party when it is safe.
Presuming you don't have young grandchildren who ate so excited
Yammy, we had our mid-winter feast (that's really what it is here) last Saturday (the only time three of my children could be here with their families). They opened their presents from me.
No, it really doesn't matter where or when you get together and celebrate. It's far more important to keep safe and well.
rosie1959
Yammy
Why do we all moan about missing Christmas? How many of us are practising Christians? How many go to church?
What people are moaning about is missing the parties and booze and frivolities that we associate with Christmas.
We can see our families and party when it is safe.Presuming you don't have young grandchildren who ate so excited
I’ve often wondered this....as a Christian myself, but we have found ourselves in a culture of Christmas being about the mass delivery of presents to children at one end of the scale....to the partying and boozing at the other end. The latter which can be done any time of the year....in normal times.
Many children are excited....my grandchildren included, but there are many who are not for various reasons.
I’ve come to the conclusion it’s down to us all doing the same thing at the same time. There’s no other logical reason if you have no faith in Jesus.
we can see our families and party when it’s safe
That’s what we were told 12 months ago. And here we are in Groundhog Day. That’s why people aren’t taking instructions from the government. Coved fatigue.
DiscoDancer1975
^the government is giving out confused messages^
Yes they are...but I believe any government would have done, which is exactly why I wouldn’t have wanted to do it.
As Monica says, people are fed up with it all. It doesn’t matter in the end, how many facts we are given. It’s down to personal choice, and what people believe.
Can you imagine Margaret Thatcher giving out confused messages?
No, me neither, like her or loathe her, there was never any doubt about what she said.
And I can't imagine her living it up and partying at the same time as telling everyone else to stay at home, stay safe, save the NHS etc.
^Why do we all moan about missing Christmas? How many of us are practising Christians? How many go to church? What people are moaning about is missing the parties and booze and frivolities that we associate with Christmas.
We can see our families and party when it is safe.^
Well, Yammy I and my family do go to church, we do not have lots of extra parties nor do we 'booze' excessivel. In fact at Christmas we are quite abstemious.
What you are saying was said last Christmas and when did we next see our families? Easter. In between times DH was close to death after being given an antibiotic resistant infection by the hospital who did his heart bypass.
So, yes we will be meeting this Christmas, last year came so close to being a Christmas with two family members dead because of the failures of the NHS.
Speaking personally - I am not moaning about missing Christmas or not. As Elegran says, missing a face to face gathering is not going to blight our lives forever, but losing an elderly relative or not being able to be with a parent with Dementia who does not understand why nobody is visiting, particularly if it may be their last Christmas, could do.
That was not my point in starting this thread, I feel strongly that if you have highly qualified advisers, it might make sense to at least listen to their advice, and not dismiss it out of hand for the sake of electoral popularity or political expediency
Calistemon
DiscoDancer1975
the government is giving out confused messages
Yes they are...but I believe any government would have done, which is exactly why I wouldn’t have wanted to do it.
As Monica says, people are fed up with it all. It doesn’t matter in the end, how many facts we are given. It’s down to personal choice, and what people believe.Can you imagine Margaret Thatcher giving out confused messages?
No, me neither, like her or loathe her, there was never any doubt about what she said.
And I can't imagine her living it up and partying at the same time as telling everyone else to stay at home, stay safe, save the NHS etc.
You’re right there ?
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