To think we should let scientific advisers advise?

Well said Maw. I totally agree with your post and cannot fault it. Too much egotistical behaviour from our MPs these days and not always good common sense.
My best wishes to you over the festive season.
Carole Anne.

I think it's safe to say they would be doing that, anyway.

the only reason MP's do not want a lock down is because they want to be able to travel anywhere over Christmas attend family parties and do as they please without people saying one rule for the rich mp's and so called celebs and one rule for all others

The UK does not have a balanced economy - sadly it is driven by going to shops and buying stuff, or pubs, cafes and hotels/restaurants, or cinemas and enjoying ourselves, oh yes, and gambling with money in "the city" to pay for it all.

Maybe if we had a mixed economy and made stuff we would be less dependent on these businesses.

No - I'm not saying it would be any easier, but maybe we would have a broader economic base to recover from.

I don't believe Chris Witty would make a better PM, he has a much more detailed set of technical skills and expertise that we need to rely on to provide expert advice .

The PM needs to be able to accept and understand that advice, and provide the serious response and deliver the technical information in a meaningful way.

Sadly, Johnson simply does not have the skills, and is not up to the job of leading the country and helping us at all. He is clearly an attention seeker, and a very poor communicator.

We are currently stuck with his style until the Conservatives decide who will be our next PM, when they have decided it is enough - that is not democracy.

Yes, I do agree with some points.

However, these are Government advisers; their role is to advise the Government and the point of this thread was that a group elected politicians are rebelling and choosing to ignore that advice. These Tory MPs object on the grounds that the experts are running the show.

They are not, they are advising. The Tory MPs should listen carefully to the medical experts and evaluate - they're not the experts in that field on the whole, although there may be one or two who are medically trained.

I also think M0nica is the voice of reason and someone who draws parallels from other situations in life to make us reflect. From there we can all make our own minds up and prioritise. M0nica's point about advisers offering advice and "others decide whether it is feasible or safe to follow that advice" is spot on.

Do you automatically accept all the advice you are given, even from those you seek professional advice from, like a solicitor or doctor. Don't you, at

I like Chris Whitty, he is an expert in this field and I do listen and take on board what he says. Common sense has to kick in, surely we don’t have to wait to be told what to do?

That is what people have always done, surely?
Divorce lawyers, architects, chiropodists....
People who know (hopefully) a bit more than we do about their chosen subject.

Thanks Monica for coming on here and, (bravely) stating a reasoned case.

I am very disturbed as to the almost hysterical panic that seems to be around these days. I really wonder if there should also be a media list of the daily number of people ill with flu, or even the common cold. Yes, both of these do kill vulnerable people.

Also, what about about a daily number of those who have died premature from cancer due to treatments either being stopped, or started to late due to late diagnosis at this time.

When the fact that a death had occurred for someone from the Omicron variant the information on the age and non-vaccinated status of that victim have been given.

I accept that Prof (Next slide please) Whitty is an expert in his field - BUT as has been said, experts in this field are not all in agreement and our lives are made up of more than just one particular virus,.

As we have a clown as PM, and a government made up of people whose only expertise seems to be in lying and making vast profits from us poor suckers, think we are desperate to look to someone, anyone with an air of gravitas for leadership.

Good post terribull. When he’s on Boris’s broadcasts Chris Witty has a graph showing percentages of vaccinated and unvaccinated people in hospital. I expect a lot of us who are retired watch the broadcasts but it would be good to see the figures much more widely publicised so that as many as possible get that very stunning message. The percentage of hospitalised unvaccinated people rises dramatically with age.

I think most of us on GN understandably speak from an older person's perspective and we are naturally more cautious and likely to follow government directives. It's inevitable that younger people living through almost 2 years of this now are really suffering from restriction fatigue, and at this time of year will continue partying like it's 1999, particularly if they read about this government's own laissez faire attitude as to not really demonstrating that they take the advice they are handing out particularly seriously. I'm simultaneously both alarmed and understanding of seeing young people gathering, remembering what I was like at that age, imaging how difficult it must be to virtually put your life on hold with possibly no end it sight of course many are at the straining at the leash stage now.

From people I've heard about those who have got the new variant and who have been vaccinated and boosted, it would appear they have had the symptoms of a common cold. I remember having those at least twice a year when I was in the cut and thrust of working life, laid low for a few days but nothing more. What would help if we could know how many people who are hospitalised haven't been vaccinated, and of those who have, I wonder whether they had yet to be offered the booster, given the efficacy of their second vaccination would have diminished to such an extent that it no longer offered protection.

karmalady

as a scientist also with a medical background, I completely agree with prof Whitty and with maw. You go your way monica and the rest of us will go our way. Btw, My dd medic has just cancelled their forthcoming family meal at a restaurant, knowing that I will be visiting them the day after, that is what I call thoughtful and considerate

Omicron is quickly replacing delta and is very likely to reach a peak soon, with many resulting hospital cases and potential deaths. Hang in there to keep the community safe, it seems as though this pandemic may be on the way to burnout in the uk and will then become an epidemic. Its down to us as individuals to have some care for the community as a whole

Good post

as a scientist also with a medical background, I completely agree with prof Whitty and with maw. You go your way monica and the rest of us will go our way. Btw, My dd medic has just cancelled their forthcoming family meal at a restaurant, knowing that I will be visiting them the day after, that is what I call thoughtful and considerate

Omicron is quickly replacing delta and is very likely to reach a peak soon, with many resulting hospital cases and potential deaths. Hang in there to keep the community safe, it seems as though this pandemic may be on the way to burnout in the uk and will then become an epidemic. Its down to us as individuals to have some care for the community as a whole

I ignore them if I'm pretty sure i know better.
The fact is though, that usually I don't.

Advisers offer advice. Others decide whether it is feasible or safe to follow that advice.

Do you automatically accept all the advice you are given, even from those you seek professional advice from, like a solicitor or doctor. Don't you, at times, ignore that advice for all sorts of reasons.

AIBU To think we should let scientific advisers advise?

Not at all.

"Scientific Advisers"
The clue is in the name, but perhaps these Tory MPs don't realise that, which is worrying.

Not everyone agrees with him and you have only to look how science has altered and changed over years as new discoveries are made.
Yes. Two years ago, CoVid was a completely new disease, which no-one knew anything about. Now a great deal more is known, and Prof Whitty is far more knowledgeable than most people - particularly than the Prime Minister. I would out far more faith in his predictions and advice than I would in anyone in Westminster.

Good for Chris! And all the other scientists who are giving us the facts. We need to listen to him.

Yes I think scientific advisers should be allowed to advise, but it’s become quite obvious that an increasing number of folk all over the UK are making their own decisions about what they think is safe.
For some this means following the rules and the advice given by various ministers and experts and for others it’s doing what suits them.

Not everyone agrees with him and you have only to look how science has altered and changed over years as new discoveries are made.

There must be a consensus of opinion and, as he is the Chief Medical Officer, he is the spokesperson (or the Deputy Chief Medical in his place) as is the Chief Scientific Officer.

They have to work with and give advice with the information they have at the present.

Of course it may change the more research and information becomes available.

New discoveries will be made and, as Covid is a new disease, there will be much to learn.

Barmyoldbat what on earth are you talking about? I have never said do what Boris says and not what Whitty says.

I have said.... Oh go back and read my posts again carefully and find out what it really said, not what you imagined I said.

Good grief. But there will still be people denying that covid exists, all a big conspiracy etc, and carrying on as usual. What chance do any of us have if - perish the thought - we need urgent hospital treatment? The NHS workers must despair.

There were 93,045 new people with a confirmed positive test result for coronavirus on 17 December 2021, and 477,229 people in the last 7 days. This shows an increase of 132,836 compared to the previous 7 days.

Not even the governments chief sccientific officer.

We're not discussing Sir Patrick Vallance

growstuff

When I read posts such as yours MOnica, I really do despair. It's too early for me and I don't even know where to begin.

I agree with you growstuff, just unbelievable that anyone can think that way, especially about those who are vulnerable. Of course we take care in normal times but this is not normal and covid attacks the lungs and when you have a lung disease this could well prove fatal or overwhelm our NHS, So MOnica don’t you think that we are entitled to feel safe when we have to go out and don’t you just think that Chris W might just be a bit better qualified than the corrupt, self serving bunch of clowns running the country.