…to expect everyone at the hairdresser’s to be Covid- compliant?

But there isn't 'overwhelming' evidence that they don't . The official advice, from experts, is that mask wearing in conjunction with other measures, helps to reduce the spread.
It's very irresponsible to post on the Internet that people shouldn't bother wearing them.

But I've read overwhelming evidence that they don't. And what I saw the other day just confirmed that. However, we're going round in circles here - and we're not going to change each others' minds - so I won't post any more on this thread.

It said there was inconclusive evidence that wearing them in schools significantly reduced spread, taking into account other variables

It did not say that masks per se do not help reduce spreads. In fact the overwhelming evidence is that they do.

The report said 'inconclusive' and it also said the face masks made 'no discernible difference'.

I just feel people are being misled into thinking that they are keeping themselves and others safe by wearing masks. And what I saw the other day confirmed (to me) that they're not safe. If people feel more comfortable wearing them than not, then fine, but hopefully they won't go out wearing them under the illusion that they will stop others or themselves from contracting Covid.

It's socially irresponsible, surely, to promote their safety?

LilacChaser

Beswitched, yes I do educate myself and keep myself up to date with what is going on with restrictions re Covid. Only last week there was a government report saying the effectiveness of facemasks in schools was inconclusive - reported on in the media. My question is do you ignore reports such as these because they don't fit in with your views, or don't support your arguments. It seems we're all guilty of doing that on here. Nobody says they're open to persuasion either way; we all seem rigid in our opinions. And arguing about it only seems to make people dig their heels in further.

Kalu, masks are mandatory in all four UK nations.

But surely if you feel the evidence is inconclusive then you would err on the side of caution and wear a mask. Why abandon them when there is a good chance that they are a helpful tool in reducing transmission?

LilacChaser

Read previous posts, Beswitched - if you saw the droplets/airborne particles coming straight through the mask of the woman in the bird hide you'd have begun to question their use.

Maybe read my post again.

Beswitched, yes I do educate myself and keep myself up to date with what is going on with restrictions re Covid. Only last week there was a government report saying the effectiveness of facemasks in schools was inconclusive - reported on in the media. My question is do you ignore reports such as these because they don't fit in with your views, or don't support your arguments. It seems we're all guilty of doing that on here. Nobody says they're open to persuasion either way; we all seem rigid in our opinions. And arguing about it only seems to make people dig their heels in further.

Kalu, masks are mandatory in all four UK nations.

I was at the hairdressers last week, only myself and one other client and all masked. The salon has reintroduced track and trace measures again, hand sanitisers and spare masks at the desk. Masks are still mandatory here in Scotland.

Read previous posts, Beswitched - if you saw the droplets/airborne particles coming straight through the mask of the woman in the bird hide you'd have begun to question their use.

I live in Dublin. At the start of the pandemic most people wore cloth masks. Now the vast majority wear surgical ones.
It's about educating yourself and listening to the experts, not just hearing selectively what you want to hear and using that as an excuse to not bother with masks.

Sooze58

Masks are unfortunately false protection unless you’re going to wear an FFP3 one. The majority are just there as show. However, someone taking a lateral flow test is much better for your protection and you cannot see that. I resent wearing a mask that does nothing when I am regularly testing for my job and know I don’t have the virus and am not infectious. You have no idea whether someone has tested or not, so cannot judge someone else for their lack of mask wearing, nor do you know if they are exempt. I’m afraid the only answer is to go elsewhere. Personally I will not live in fear - I am triple jabbed and test regularly.

If you do some research, you can find out how effective the different types of masks are, from the least effective type ie home made two later cotton ones up to five layer medical masks. Even the least effective masks offer some protection for the wearer and for people around them.

Oh and nice bit of selective quoting there Lila chaser.

LilacChaser

*Face masks are not some kind of magic cloak.*

Exactly! So why do so many people think they are safe when everyone else has a mask on? They're not.

They're not 100 per cent safe, but they are much safer than if the other person isn't wearing a mask.

Face masks are not some kind of magic cloak.

Exactly! So why do so many people think they are safe when everyone else has a mask on? They're not.

The point of face masks is that, combined with social distancing, they offer protection from droplets. If you are standing close enough to somebody to be covered by their exhaled breath then of course you're at risk.
Face masks are not some kind of magic cloak. They are a tool which, when used with other precautionary measures, help to reduce the risk of infecting other people.

Here is something I witnessed just last week (and I'm neither a scientist, nor qualified; I just believe face masks are ineffective - judgement based on statistics, reports read, media items, etc, etc - same as we all use to base our own judgements on).

I'm a bird watcher and last week, our bird watching group visited a nature reserve. It was a bitterly cold day. We went in a bird hide and watched the birds through the windows. I stood behind a woman and got distracted by the swirls of what looked like smoke coming from her face area. At first, I thought she must be smoking, but then realised she wasn't. What I was watching was this woman's breath condensing in the air (like all our breaths were). Then I realised she was wearing a face mask. Her breath wasn't steaming out of the sides of her mask, nor up her nostrils, nor out of the bottom of her face area. It was billowing straight out through the mask - great big puffs of it. Even I couldn't believe what I was seeing for a moment. If I was 99% sure that face masks were ineffective at stopping Covid, from that moment on, I am 100% sure.

I wish I had something on me to record what I saw - I would have sent it to every media channel and government possible. It would probably have been ignored, though, as it just doesn't fit in with the politics of being seen to be 'doing something'.

Thank you for clarifying that, Besw

My comments weren't directed at you Baggs, but at the posters stating with arrogant and unqualified confidence that masks are no use in stopping the spread of covid.

In case anyone's interested this is the first article I landed on when I put droplet or aerosol in the search engine.

I think you might be the one making assumptions, beswitched. What I said a few posts up stated what I had been reading, not what I knew. Rosie came back with some information she had seen. Neither of us are claiming to know or be 'qualified' about what we're talking about. We're just having a conversation about things that are puzzling.

Can't speak for the rest of the thread, just replying now because of the juxtaposition of your last post.

Amazing how some people on here are so much more knowledgeable than those who have spent years studying medicine and science.

I think I'll just read a couple of articles on architecture and then assume I'm qualic to spread advice on the Internet about how to safely construct a public building.

Or hey, I've babysat and read stories to kids, I'll just start telling qualified teachers how to do their job.

Seriously the arrogance and irresponsibility of some people!

As far as I understand covid is both droplets and aerosol.
Masks are a help they are no where near 100% protection against covid unless you have a properly fitted FFP2 mask
But whilst infection is rife they don't do any harm in certain situations and can be helpful in reducing viral load.
I wear one as restrictions request when these restrictions are removed then it will be free choice. Nobody can stop you wearing a mask for as long as you like.

I cant remember having a smallpox vaccine every few months

Been reading stuff about the difference between droplets and aerosols. Not everyone agrees that covid is spread by droplets. Some argue that aerosol particles are much tinier thatn any droplet and so can go through cloth masks with ease. This is why it is argued that cloth masks aren't much, if any, use.

Not that smallpox just disappeared.