Will we simply return to a presenteeism work culture?

There's a thread going about this on Mumsnet at the moment and it is quite depressing to see how many younger people seem to lack the vision or imagination to comprehend a change in the way we work.

I'm not talking about people who would prefer to go back into the office themselves, but the many who almost become annoyed and indignant at anyone hoping to be allowed continue to WFH post Covid.

What happens will, I think, depend on a variety of factors amongst them the following;

Whether each person enjoyed working at home
Whether the firm they work for was happy about them doing so
Whether they missed the social ineraction of their workplace or not
Whether they have children, and if so, how old these children are
How far they daily need to travel to get to work

Another factor is whether you like being able to plan your working hours and the way in which you do things yourself, or are happier having a supervisor telling you when to do things.

Parents of young children have generally speaking found it hard to combine having to look after children who were home from kindergarten or school as well as do their own work.

Obviously this factor will disappear once schools and day-care are back to normal, which may make working from home an option for more people.

On the other hand, working from home is really only an option if you are only or mainly in contact with clients on the phone or over the internet.

No-body in the teaching or medical professions can easily work from home and the same must apply to many others.

Sago ' to be able to have the odd day WFH but I don’t think it’s natural to be so solitary'

Honestly, it's natural for me! I used to absolutely hate being in the office, with interruptions and forced into conversations. I've worked from home for many years so Covid WFH restrictions were no issue.
There is no way I'd want to go back to a commute, being amongst colleagues and all that entails.
I do know for some people the isolation is detrimental, but I'm very happy with it in a work day. But I am very much an introvert and being social drains my energy.

What we found was that some people worked really well and, in some cases, were over productive at home. Then their was the team who took the complete mick. Unfortunately, they were customer facing and the complaints started coming in thick and fast. When their computer time was analysed we found that 75% of them were working at or below 52% productive. One person was working at 82% non productive. That ie one team who will be back asap.

Many people, by the nature of their job can never work from home but for some it is no problem, I imagine it will be a balance. My sil started working a 4 day week 3 years ago to spend time with my granddaughter and during covid my daughter started her own business so she can work on line and also does a 4 day week, they'd be better off working full time but I think they have a good work/life balance

Mummer

I'm at a loss why mother's nowadays are so inadequate when it comes to spending time with their own children!! Why the dickens do they bother having any? They all moan about the cost/hassle/activities/noise/mess. So why? Just because they can and makes them appear to be able to "have it all" in the eyes of their peers? Not a good reason.

It's not down to inadequacy. It's down to both parents often having to work full time with long commutes in order to pay the mortgage on overpriced houses in satellite and dormer towns and ever increasing childcare costs.
If more WFH was allowed there would be shorter commutes, ability to buy in more affordable areas and for one or both parents to work part time, or one parent to give up going out to work for a few years.

Omalinda
Totally agree I think a great many WFH folk do more at home than if they are in the office.
My AD has worked from home all through the pandemic,and while she is a hard worker anyway she worked longer hours
WFH.
Her employer set up three computer screens and every thing see needed to do her work.The employers of WFH employees using the work computers tend to be logged into their office
computer systems so they can be checked up anyway

Quizzer

Some people I have worked with needed constant supervision and, left to their own devices, did no work at all.
How are employers supposed to handle this if they are forced to allow these people to WFH?

By managing those particular individuals and regularly reviewing their output or lack thereof, referring them to HR if necessary, etc.

Skivers are Skivers wherever they work.

I worked from home as most visiting Business Consultant do went into office once a month for meetings,that involved an overnight stay as meetings started early and I live 150 miles
away.
For me there were benefits and non-benefits I made my own
appointments so could plan my day as I wished and go and come at my own times.My employer didn’t really care as long as I over achieved my targets.
The non-benefits were as been said when you WFH you are constantly thinking of clients and many a day I would come home after a very long day visiting client over a vast area and go into my office and work until my DH would say enough is enough. But many a time I would think of something and go back to deal with it. You just can’t shut off really but I prefered it to commuting every day.I am fortunate in that my AC had all married and left home so I have a dedicated office.My sympathy is with the young WFH if they have little ones.
I must say I was very lucky with all my clients as when my grandchildren visited and came into my office when I was on the telephone I was shushing them but no-one ever complained
??

Mummer

I'm at a loss why mother's nowadays are so inadequate when it comes to spending time with their own children!! Why the dickens do they bother having any? They all moan about the cost/hassle/activities/noise/mess. So why? Just because they can and makes them appear to be able to "have it all" in the eyes of their peers? Not a good reason.

... a lot of generalisations about mothers in your comment.

There might be women who want to "have it all" - and why not, anyway?

But many women work because the wage of one person isn't enough, and hasn't been for quite some time. So if they want a better work-life balance - good for them. It helps the whole family.

There have always been parents who are - as you put it - "inadequate"... parents... not just women. It comes from their attitude and mental outlook - a lazy parent is a lazy parent whether they work or not.

I look after my baby grandson one a week and then work from home two days a week and in the office two days a week and absolutely love it. I feel I have the best of both worlds and would hate to go back to going in every day. There is is no skiving on my part as on my home days I tend to work longer hours.

Mummer

I'm at a loss why mother's nowadays are so inadequate when it comes to spending time with their own children!! Why the dickens do they bother having any? They all moan about the cost/hassle/activities/noise/mess. So why? Just because they can and makes them appear to be able to "have it all" in the eyes of their peers? Not a good reason.

What a terrible attitude to have towards mother's.

What a disgusting comment, Mummer. Do you say the same thing about fathers? That attitude was misogynistic in the 50s and it’s even worse now.

I'm at a loss why mother's nowadays are so inadequate when it comes to spending time with their own children!! Why the dickens do they bother having any? They all moan about the cost/hassle/activities/noise/mess. So why? Just because they can and makes them appear to be able to "have it all" in the eyes of their peers? Not a good reason.

Before the first lockdown, the work culture in the UK had reached a level where the work-life balance of many people had plummeted to a level far below that of our European counterparts. I accept that not all types of worker experienced the same problems, but many 'office' workers were heading into work at 6.00 am and not returning home until 10.00 pm to avoid traffic and because once on employers' premises it was relatively easy for them to be coerced into remaining late. What I have seen from many of my clients who have been working from home and managed to accommodate their laptops on dining tables is that whilst this can be intrusive, requiring more than one person in a dwelling to have to change patterns (i.e. working from a table in a bedroom), it does at least return the commute time to individuals and they can log on and log off observing proper work boundaries and on balance they prefer that as they can take an early morning walk and even do the same at lunchtime. Of course, if there are children they can come home after school instead of having to do after school clubs or go to a childminder. What I see now is that as offices have opened up both employers and employees have agreed that it is good to have people back in the office but not necessary for this to be every day and many people are now settling into a better and more productive arrangement where they work on the employers' premises for two or three days a week and work from home for the remainder and this is definitely something that helps people's mental health, and will eventually prevent long work absences through burnout and depression. Of course, some workers have been in work throughout this covid period so maybe we need to look at how those people can also achieve a better work-life balance.

I never had a "big" salary or home yet trudged my whole working life up and down the M61 and its links to a scruffy(usually) office to work totally alone occasionally visiting clients but generally miserable and wishing they'd let me work from home? But no. Every single male boss said similar reason why not along the lines of "you might spend all day doing your hair and nails and shopping ha ha" not either true or remotely funny. Different story for fellas who actually DID spend majority of "home working" time either on some golf course or watching TV/gardening and were shameless in telling all and sundry about it with complete impunity!! So yes I think whoever wants to and can, should have the right to work from home. All my work on computer so no reason to shell out on car/fuel/childminders/ smart clothes etc.other than because some bloke could make me do so.

I've seen this from both sides with my 2 DDs. DD no 2 moved in with me temporarily just before covid struck and had to work from her bedroom in my 2 up 2 down house. It was hard going, but as the majority of her team work in London, and she is in Scotland, it doesn't make a difference where she works from. Her company have been brilliant and put in all the equipment she needed, paid for a proper desk and also gave her money towards anything else she needed. She's now in her new home, with a spare bedroom turned into an office. She loves WFH.
My DD no 1 however, is a teacher with 2 school age children, she was on the edge of a nervous breakdown before lockdown ended!! Needless to say she was desperate to return to her workplace!

I have never WFH but there were plenty of skivers in the places I worked in.
Toilet breaks that would last 30 minutes as they would stop for a chat on the way back. Elongated lunch times and very often late in the morning. I never understood how they got away with it.

When the children were small I'd have been over the moon to work from home. No fuel bills, no need to buy clothes for work, no need to get someone to look after kids when they came home from school or during school holidays, no discrimination when going for an interview because you were a working mother, being there for the kids everyday. But even though I was a very conscientious worker I really don't think I would have given my full attention to my job as I did when going into the office. I would also have missed the interaction with fellow workmates and am sure I would have struggled with my mental health. I am also quite sure that a lot of people are not as productive when working from home. That's just my experience.

When I was little, my mum didn't go back to work until I was 12 (and then it was part time). So there were no childminders needed. My dad would pop home for lunch - a healthy omelette or something and then go back to work. Children always had their parents when they needed or wanted them and parents never missed the first step or first tooth etc, It was a slower, poorer, but much happier way of life and was possible because peoples workplaces were more local to them. Instead, we now have "centres of excellence" in big cities with a long commute. No wonder we keep hearing of people with mental health issues, children who go off the rails and don't even get me started on the carbon footprint of our current working lifestyles! It used to be that lots of shops and cafes etc in lots of towns thrived, but now it seems our town centres are dying and the only businesses that will survive are those that are satellites to these huge offices etc in London and the like where they bemoan their extortionate rates.
In hospitals, small local ones closed in favour of massive ones dotted around the country, so ambulance journeys are longer and more difficult due to all the commuters on the road.
(and all the while those carbon emissions are rising and possibly making us all ill). Surely it would be better for the "excellent surgeon or specialist teams to travel to smaller hospitals (where friends and relatives can visit the sick - all useful for recovery). - say one of Mondays another on Tuesdays etc rather than ferrying sick people miles away to the surgeons.
Maybe it's time for another rethink!

Slice? Skive!

People who slice can do it at home or in a building meant for work.
Most people have to log on to work, so that the big bosses can check their activity anyway.

To answer those that truly believe those wfh are “skiving” or need constant supervision - I’d question why individuals like this are still in employment ??

I have neither a big house nor a huge salary but I’ve found so many benefits wfh and I’m a CS and there is a move for back office non public facing CS to undertake hybrid working which I’m in favour of it It’s better for the environment, for many it’s cheaper and for many it’s such a better work/life balance - I’ve been working from home since August 2020, with the odd day in an office and I’m achieving so much more work and hours on an expensive car commute and car parking !!

I've worked from home for the past 12 years and, as I'm self-employed, I don't earn anywhere near as much as I used to. But the benefits of WFH - oh, the benefits. Warm environment, the commute takes 5 seconds, I can work without being interrupted by the phone. No office politics. I like what I do. I'm very non-conformist, and don't suit the office environment, so it's a perfect fit. I could never go back to working for anybody else.

Since the pandemic, people have tried working from home and preferred it or hated it depending on the kind of person they are. I think most would be happy with a mix of the two.