To think this is odd in view of what’s already been said

I think we forget that PA's behaviour caused collateral damage in his own family. His daughters have had to see all the sleaze and details of his unseemly life plastered all over the papers.

I think it remarkable that these daughters of two such totally dysfunctional adults they seem to have turned out, so very well and face up to the world with such equanimity.

They seem to have inherited the steely self-possession when confronting disaster that the Queen has.

It must be difficult for his daughters to hold him in any sort of esteem, I'd think.

What on earth was he doing hanging around in that sort of environment when he was a man in his 40s with two young daughters.
Even if he was "just" having an affair with an older woman (the Keating woman was at the house too at the same time), the place was set up like a high class (or tacky, take your pick) brothel. What a world he mixed in.

Callistemon21

Surely, if he had a shred of decency, he would have looked at some of the girls and thought "They're just children, not much older than my own little girls. I can't bear the thought of middle aged men taking advantage of Beatrice and Eugenie were circumstances different. I must do something to stop this".

He knew, he colluded and did nothing even if he didn't rape any of them.
He is a disgrace.

Well that's what it boils down to really. What on earth was he doing hanging around in that sort of environment when he was a man in his 40s with two young daughters.

Whatever the truth of what happened between him and the girl, his general behaviour was pretty sleazy and disgusting. I feel really sorry for his daughters and, of course the Queen.

Yes that does help Kalu, thanks for responding.

Smileless2012

I agree it's a bit of a stretch Kalu so why did you mention rape in your earlier post.

"I have read/heard of many women in the UK who decide not to report being raped for fear of not being believed. PA however, has a reputation which earned him the name Andy Randy which speaks volumes".

So what did you intend to say or imply?

I have no idea or facts to quote concerning PA’s behaviour. I certainly did not accuse him of rape, I included him as being another male involved with sexual abuse of women. Whether he took part or not, he knew what was going on at Epstein’s house. Rape and sexual abuse suffered by any woman can be extremely harrowing for the victim to be believed.

HTH Smileless

Me too. I wish V. G.the very best. I had hoped Andrew would be made an example for anyone endeavouring to take advantage of those bought and sold, groomed and abused. Hopefully he will loose his York title.

LucyLocket55 ?

I think I could believe that too Petera.

Yes it would have come down to that Callistemon so I don't think either of them were in a strong position to 'win'. The settlement makes sense and must be a huge relief to his family and perhaps to her too.

There are only 2 options, did or didn't.

I don't really see the appeal of hanging around with underage girls who are obviously used for sex unless that's your type of party.

So logically the truth is he did and we can definitely know it.

What we can't do is prove it

Not the same thing at all

Saw this and laughed

‘The grand old Duke Of York
He had ten million quid
He gave it to someone he’d never met
For something he never did’

Smileless2012

I'm not disagreeing with you Petera but when it comes down to whether or not PA had sex with her, we'll never know.

No, I would think it would be "he said, she said" if it had come to court.

He either knew exactly what the score was with Epstein or he's more stupid than he appears to be.
Obviously didn't inherit his mother 's intelligence and sharp mind.

That's true, and sorry to have gone off half-cocked.

One of the saddest things is that I would be willing to believe that even he doesn't know

I'm not disagreeing with you Petera but when it comes down to whether or not PA had sex with her, we'll never know.

Callistemon21

Surely, if he had a shred of decency, he would have looked at some of the girls and thought "They're just children, not much older than my own little girls. I can't bear the thought of middle aged men taking advantage of Beatrice and Eugenie were circumstances different. I must do something to stop this".

He knew, he colluded and did nothing even if he didn't rape any of them.
He is a disgrace.

So agree with you

Smileless2012

"if it happened" and of course we'll never know now for sure.

Yes I know what I wrote thanks Smileless2012. It still doesn't contradict the facts - and I use the word “facts” deliberately and carefully - that a trafficked 17-year-old girl is being publicly described as "opportunistic".

I weep for our daughters and granddaughters.

Not sure about that, there are people, who were witness to the truth and there are people who can see through the abusers of this world who will know it too.

Surely, if he had a shred of decency, he would have looked at some of the girls and thought "They're just children, not much older than my own little girls. I can't bear the thought of middle aged men taking advantage of Beatrice and Eugenie were circumstances different. I must do something to stop this".

He knew, he colluded and did nothing even if he didn't rape any of them.
He is a disgrace.

"if it happened" and of course we'll never know now for sure.

Aveline

I still don't think he did have sex with her. I suspect she was told that a 'British prince' might be at a party but would probably not be able to tell one middle aged man from another.
He must deeply regret his association with Epstein and want to get this all over asap. He's robustly defended himself and even offered to appear in court in America which was a grave risk. I don't think he's the brightest and certainly miscalculated by giving that TV interview which he hoped would end all the speculation.
My personal opinion is that she's an opportunistic besom and that her parents knew fine well what was going on. She's not a poor wee thing and was absolutely beaming in that photo which has mysteriously disappeared.

Aveline my personal opinion is that she was a trafficked 17-year-old. Even if she was lying with her legs in the air screaming "**** me Andy" it was still a crime if it happened and the 41-year-old bears, not just some but, all of the responsibility.

Keeper1

An old boss of mine always said when a case goes to court it can go either way. Looks to me that both parties wanted to settle.

Your friend is incorrect as far as these sort of cases in the USA . The cases tend to go in favour of the claimant.

An old boss of mine always said when a case goes to court it can go either way. Looks to me that both parties wanted to settle.

Smileless the way you are speaking to Kalu is very confrontational

The man has been accused of sex with a minor which is statutory rape. I view her as incredibly brave as it is true that many are afraid to come forward with that sort of allegation incase they are not believed.

Despite his reputation some are still willing to absolutely trounce a person who was a minor at the time of these events and it is shocking to me when women should be holding each other up.

Having sex with trafficked people is illegal. It doesn't matter their age.

Andrew has paid out sooner than prove he had no idea of the trafficking.

That is the short and long of it.