Assigned female at birth

Yes, the trans community need to challenge the trans activists who don’t represent the community and create anxiety, fear and anger.

Yes Chewbacca. Re your post at 02:am

Genuine answer: for the ordinary trans community, who just want to get on with their lives in peace, to openly and loudly condemn the violence and aggression that the trans activists are using against natal women, lesbians and gays and make it clear that it's "Not in My Name

It seems the essential way forward is, instead of allowing themselves to appear accepting of what is said about trans, the ordinary trans who want to live , and have been living peacefully must themselves take a stand the way you mention.
It’s women and women’s rights that some ill-intentioned trans and their vociferous supporters are trying to eradicate. Let’s have the ordinary trans stand up for the women they aspire to be rather than, by their silence, colluding with the other group.

I'm not talking about which things people want stopped, because that gets covered alot, I'm looking for a fresh perspective. What CAN be done?
Genuine question.

Genuine answer: for the ordinary trans community, who just want to get on with their lives in peace, openly and loudly condemn the violence and aggression that the trans activists are using against natal women, lesbians and gays and make it clear that it's "Not in My Name". As it currently stands, the trans activists are literally using physical violence, not just to further equal standing for the trans community, they're using it to diminish, silence and eradicate women.

Doodledog

Sorry if I've confused people - I was confused myself, as I knew I hadn't posted about Methylwotsit .

Yes, I meant mainstream media. It tends to get abbreviated to MSM by people who think they are far too savvy to be taken in by things that mere mortals accept as truth; but they fail to understand that manipulation can work on many more levels than headlines in the Daily Mail.

It is (IMO) perfectly possible that 'culture wars' (and trans issues could be included in these, but there are many others) have been engineered deliberately to turn people against one another and weaken the support for politicians, and consequently the leadership that they could otherwise provide.

I don't think for a second that Putin invaded Ukraine because the West has been arguing over pronouns (as was suggested upthread), but I could be persuaded that the argument is one of many that have been planted to break up more established demographic groupings, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he was behind at least some of it.

Agree with this.

NanKate

Many of us on here stand for equality and are against discrimination, however it is watering down/phasing out of women that is our gripe, plain and simple.

What things can we do to make room for trans people, where let's face it very little room has existed in the past, while not watering down or phasing out women?

What things can we do that truely support and further the cause of both.

I'm not talking about which things people want stopped, because that gets covered alot, I'm looking for a fresh perspective. What CAN be done?

Genuine question.

good point in your final paragraph Doodle. IMO any suggestion that Putin "invaded Ukraine because the West has been arguing over pronouns" was absurd, but his desire to "break up more established demographic groupings" was not something I'd considered.

Sorry if I've confused people - I was confused myself, as I knew I hadn't posted about Methylwotsit .

Yes, I meant mainstream media. It tends to get abbreviated to MSM by people who think they are far too savvy to be taken in by things that mere mortals accept as truth; but they fail to understand that manipulation can work on many more levels than headlines in the Daily Mail.

It is (IMO) perfectly possible that 'culture wars' (and trans issues could be included in these, but there are many others) have been engineered deliberately to turn people against one another and weaken the support for politicians, and consequently the leadership that they could otherwise provide.

I don't think for a second that Putin invaded Ukraine because the West has been arguing over pronouns (as was suggested upthread), but I could be persuaded that the argument is one of many that have been planted to break up more established demographic groupings, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he was behind at least some of it.

AcornFairy

This is all fascinating stuff and I'm trying to educate myself. But a lot of it is going over my head. What has Methylsulfonylmethane got to do with any of this?

Nothing. Thank you for asking.

Rosie51

AcornFairy

My 15:45 post was supposted to be attached to Doodledog's 13:16 post!

Yes checking back Doodledog would mean mainstream media.

Many thanks Rosie51. That does make much more sense!!

AcornFairy

My 15:45 post was supposted to be attached to Doodledog's 13:16 post!

Yes checking back Doodledog would mean mainstream media.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned Methylsulfonylmethane AcornFairy. Is it possible someone has used the acronym MSM which stands for mainstream media?

My 15:45 post was supposted to be attached to Doodledog's 13:16 post!

This is all fascinating stuff and I'm trying to educate myself. But a lot of it is going over my head. What has Methylsulfonylmethane got to do with any of this?

NanKate

Many of us on here stand for equality and are against discrimination, however it is watering down/phasing out of women that is our gripe, plain and simple.

NanKate that looks like discrimination against women (AHF) to me. . .
Actually, it doesn’t just look like it, it is! Discrimination against women by men in whatever guise and the vociferous support if that discrimination by some women themselves.

Many of us on here stand for equality and are against discrimination, however it is watering down/phasing out of women that is our gripe, plain and simple.

Going to take a break but I just wanted to say that while there are many differences between what different demographics go through that need to be respected and acknowledged and that is so so important.

When it comes to what discrimination is and what that looks like, I feel that rather than splitting it up into separate smaller fights, it's important that we all stand together against discrimination and for equality. We are louder and stronger together.

Mollygo, I asked, I didn't assume, then I explained but I'm sorry that upset you

VioletSky

Molkygo thanks, I did know that, everything is chemical.

Dihydrogen monoxide is the chemical name for water

What I was getting at is that people often use the word "chemical" to show it as negative... And I wondered if that is why you chose that word

And I wonder why you wondered why I chose that word. Hormones are chemicals, puberty blockers are hormones ergo . . .

I notice you are putting your own interpretation on what I said. I’m sure you criticised people on GN for doing that about your posts.

*Dickens I agree about headlines, I just sometimes get sucked in when individual people say things. Lesson learnt

Molkygo thanks, I did know that, everything is chemical.

Dihydrogen monoxide is the chemical name for water

What I was getting at is that people often use the word "chemical" to show it as negative... And I wondered if that is why you chose that word

VioletSky

... thank you for that clarification, it really changes things. I hadn't heard of that case so had taken that statement literally

You know that adage, "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is" - well I apply the same principle to certain news headlines... "if it sounds too ridiculous to be true, etc."!

Basically, the father was jailed for contempt of court - going against a restraining order. He didn't just call his child "daughter" with a big burly policeman grabbing his collar informing him we was 'nicked'...

It's a complex issue and not helped by some tabloids' sensational reporting, deliberately skewed...

If you have a womb surely you need smear tests, if you have male genitalia you need prostrate checks. I think it ridiculous to think you can just change the sex you want to be viewed as. If you are a man or woman trapped in the wrong body, I understand that. Also men that prefer men, women who prefer women. No one takes any notice.

VioletSky

Dihydrogen monoxide is a chemical... The word "chemical" doesn't contain much information, that's all.
Sorry I didn’t know I was expected to educate you as well. Hormones are chemicals. Puberty blockers are hormones and hormones are . . . Hope that helps.

Dihydrogen monoxide is a chemical... The word "chemical" doesn't contain much information, that's all

Dickens thank you for that clarification, it really changes things. I hadn't heard of that case so had taken that statement literally

I agree Dickens I am aware of the case but I am very wary of commenting on actual cases involving children, we very rarely know whats going on. However I hope those who have thought this was ok for children are faced with the legal consequences of their actions. It is interesting that many countries are running from this as quickly as they can.