Assigned female at birth

In my opinion you are not being at all unreasonable. I don't know about PC going too far, but 'assigned female at birth' it is such a ludicrous phrase that if I got such a letter I would write to the head of my NHS trust and ask for it to be stopped.

Women need smear tests, because they are members of the female sex. Sex is not assigned, it is endemic. It is determined at conception, not at birth.

It is ridiculous and worrying because someone could answer that they may have been assigned female at birth but they now identify as male so wish to turn down the appointment.
That could cause problems for them in the future if they refuse to attend.

What's wrong with "You are invited for a cervical smear test"?

Callistemon21

What's wrong with "You are invited for a cervical smear test"?

What indeed.

Was there a question over her gender when she was born? I have friend whose baby was "assigned a gender at birth" becuase it wasn't clear what gender it was.She raised the baby as a girl but it became clear as she grew older she was happier as a male .
This wasn't hidden in anyway from family and friends ,could your .Could your GD have had the same issues and it had been kept from everyone,including her ?

She would still have been assigned a sex, not a gender, though.

I would have thought that sex is observed rather than assigned.

paddyann54

Was there a question over her gender when she was born? I have friend whose baby was "assigned a gender at birth" becuase it wasn't clear what gender it was.She raised the baby as a girl but it became clear as she grew older she was happier as a male .
This wasn't hidden in anyway from family and friends ,could your .Could your GD have had the same issues and it had been kept from everyone,including her ?

Those inviting her for a smear test probably won't know that.

They are usually routine letters, not specific to any patient.

Nobody is assigned a sex, it is always observed. The midwives in my family do not randomly assign anything to the babies they deliver. On those rare occasions when the external genitalia are not clearly one sex or the other genetic testing is done which clearly indicates which sex the infant should be registered as. In the distant past it was a matter of guessing, and at one time any ambiguous genitalia usually led to the infant being registered as female because surgery to approximate female biology is easier.
Anybody needing a smear test is female.

YANBU pinkprincess.

There's no need for such a letter to say 'because' anything but, if it does, it should say that the person is female.

(Any transman or non-binary person who can't cope with being reminded that they are female, really needs some good psychiatric help.)

Callistemon21

It is ridiculous and worrying because someone could answer that they may have been assigned female at birth but they now identify as male so wish to turn down the appointment.
That could cause problems for them in the future if they refuse to attend.

I do understand what you are trying to say with this, and it's a relevant sentiment, but i think it more likely that trans men would respond better to the term 'assigned female at birth' than to the term 'women'. Reverting to referencing the term women, alone, surely puts this trans men at greater risk than the term being currently used?

There is often an air about these things of 'well, in that case it'll be their fault for choosing to live that way'. Much the same attitude was had about gay people and hiv back in the day.

What does it matter to you what a stock letter uses for salutation, OP? Don't you have better things to do with your life?

I've actually never met a trans person who denied that sex is real. The issue is with gender. You are assigned a gender at birth based on what is known or observed about your sex. This is where the language about 'assigned whatever at birth' is talking about.

However, if we want to talk solely about sex and the facts of sex? Did you know that actually not everyone has xx or xy chromosomes? No really, look it up. This has been proven. And 1-2% of our several billion global population is intersex. That's about 400k people in the UK.

Just food for thought.

Assigning a gender sounds like tossing a coin to decide which team a baby should join.

Babies sex is observed in the UK. Any uncertainty is decided by testing.

Callistemon21

What's wrong with "You are invited for a cervical smear test"?

Yes, short, to the point, and common sense.

And 1-2% of our several billion global population is intersex. there is no such thing as 'intersex' and most people with DSDs object to the term. There are two sexes, male and female, there is no third sex. Every living organism that relies on sexual reproduction splits into two defined sexes. Even where some expected functions are absent it is still possible to ascertain which sexual pathway an individual was on.
Sex is real and is immutable. That's science, that's fact.

Your science is a bit dated rosie1. There are dozens of combinations of chromosomes that exist and have been observed. They might not be very common but they very much do exist.

What does it matter to you what a stock letter uses for salutation, OP? Don't you have better things to do with your life?
If terminology should be irrelevant to women (and being bothered by/interested in something is not indicative of having nothing better to do with one's life, incidentally), why is it important to transmen? Why should women be eradicated to appease transpeople? Linguistic eradication is important, as it removes the ability to discuss concepts in a meaningful way, and

Realistically it's just a true statement.

Granddaughter gets the important screening she needs and so do her peers in transition.

All good

and removes the idea that 'woman = adult human female' in favour of 'woman' is a subset of men'.

Doodledog

and removes the idea that 'woman = adult human female' in favour of 'woman' is a subset of men'.

Doodledog, I don't understand this, can you explain? Asking sincerely.

I don't see what women have to be eradicated in favour of transmen. I take your point about erradication in language. I don't understand the part about women being a subset of men.

I wish women who fear oppression would be more aware of their potential to oppress another group while fighting for their own standing. We could be on the same side. We should be, imo. Trans folk who transition know more about massive hormone fluctuations than many would think. There can be sympathies and lessons shared.

Herefornow

Your science is a bit dated rosie1. There are dozens of combinations of chromosomes that exist and have been observed. They might not be very common but they very much do exist.

Wow, so someone has discovered identified, and had peer review of the third (or maybe more) sex!! Nobel prize on the way! Can you name this individual who has proved beyond doubt that humans have a third sex?

Nobody would deny there are some chromosome variations from XX and XY. None of them denote a third , or more, sex. Every single person on the planet earth, past and present, has been formed from the fusion of a small motile gamete from a male sex person and a large immotile gamete from a female sex person. Unless of course you know and can demonstrate differently.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-139414-2fce74f8-d252-4dc5-bfc1-8b20679a1e8f-4-5005-c.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-590904-86dc4eae-8e73-4f9f-9a6b-d95fee585ef6.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-21296-5d78dbab-f4ae-4d35-a86e-d49a7a1da5a7.jpeg

This is just a sample.

"Bleeders" so nice, so inclusive.

For those unaware Herstory was developed because women were frequently omitted from history. Ironic eh?

JKR is the devil incarnate and her objectors are so rational. This was the most inoffensive post I could find.

I think a simple look at mumsnet and the amount of trans topics versus other issues is very enlightening. Not just the amount of thread topics devoted to trans issues, the amount of comments on those thread topics.

That's what concerns me. While we are being led down the garden path towards trans people being the cause of all women's issues, many topics are being left behind.

Do you not find the term 'bleeders' in any way distasteful or offensive VioletSky? Sorry but I do. It's reducing women to a once a month biological process. Most people defecate once a day but it's not a term in general use, when did you last see "defecators, why not consider product xyz?" Andrex have never resorted to 'defecators (aka people who sh*t) this is the best toilet paper ever.'

I don't think I'd be very secure as a woman if an advertising slogan made me feel reduced in any way.

They are free to advertise as they wish, whether they are successful or not is all the feedback they need.

TBH, I was more offended by the idea period blood could be represented by blue water as if red was something to be ashamed of.

Or the thought that we'd all be off rollerblading in white trousers if we just used the right kind of sanitary towel.

That advertising for you, mostly silly