Assigned female at birth

volver

I've just come back to the PC after my lunch.

Excuse my language, but bloody hell...

Remember when that American blamed the gays for the flooding in New Orleans?

Right here with you! Words fail me.

I agree with the idea that we need to find a way to make space for everyone. If women's rights can only come at the expense of trans rights are we not perpetuating the idea that its ok to oppress a group of people to support another group of people? And when all the trans folk have magically gone away, who will be the next easy target? Muslims? Women? And ok, all the trans people disappear... Will that be all of the myriad of issues women face gone too? No, because in 50 years we still haven't achieved the level of unity required to actually solve sex or gender discrimination. You know, if i was a straight rich white bloke seeking to stay that way i would be quite chuffed with all the fighting going on.

Doodledog

There was an editorial piece on Byline Times recently, saying something similar - that Putin has stirred up ‘culture wars’ to destabilise the west and weaken leadership and alliances.

I do think that Cummings was responsible for segmenting groups (Boomers v Millennials, Metropolitan elite v The Rest, etc), the better to pick us all off, but in no case have the groups involved been to blame for any of it.

We all like to think that we are capable of autonomous thought, and sneering at the so-called MSM is usually a sign of the worst offenders, but the truth is that we are all manipulated all the time in more ways than we realise.

I agree with you Doodledog.

But what you have written is not the same as saying Putin started a war because we're too "woke".

I certainly don't want a world that is "woke" or "pc".

I want a world that is fair and doesn't discriminate against anyone.

If you think that's deserving of silly name calling, then it's you that I'm sorry for.

Excuse me for being an optimist, I've been told off for that this week already.

There was an editorial piece on Byline Times recently, saying something similar - that Putin has stirred up ‘culture wars’ to destabilise the west and weaken leadership and alliances.

I do think that Cummings was responsible for segmenting groups (Boomers v Millennials, Metropolitan elite v The Rest, etc), the better to pick us all off, but in no case have the groups involved been to blame for any of it.

We all like to think that we are capable of autonomous thought, and sneering at the so-called MSM is usually a sign of the worst offenders, but the truth is that we are all manipulated all the time in more ways than we realise.

I admire your optimism volver but I'm not holding my breath for the world becoming more woke and pc.

25Avalon I've got my breath back.

I think what you are saying is that Putin considers the West to be unwilling or unable to respond to his aggression because we have been pre-occupied with other things, which you consider to be "soft"?

Now Putin may well think that, but he is clearly a megalomaniac who doesn't need any excuse, he's just going to do what he likes. And the response of the Ukrainians in particular, and the countries supporting them, can just show him that we're not pushovers.

But the offensive part is that you think that concentrating on developing a liberal society is "woke" and "pc". Its the way the whole world is going and Putin is going to learn that, very soon.

I'm still in shock

The idea that anyone could blame people being nice to each other for the atrocity in Ukraine is just so out there, woo woo, pants on head bonkers that I don't know what to do with it

Ukraine is happening because of not nice people, this is very clear. Please let's put the blame where it should be

I've just come back to the PC after my lunch.

Excuse my language, but bloody hell...

Remember when that American blamed the gays for the flooding in New Orleans?

I....

You....

What?!?

What I meant Volver was that there has been so much wokeness and pc in the Western world that Putin has seen us as weak and indecisive and embarked on the war against Ukraine whilst we have been concentrating on those issues.

Trans people aren't to blame for stereotypes either. They exist in every society.

They are changing and evolving

Many parents are deliberately bringing up their bildren to be no gender conforming

Perhaps if trans people still exist in a non gender conforming society, if they still want to have the physical appearance of the opposite sex, then people will start to believe them

different support to women but the demand is to be included as women, as female, in every possible situation.

Jazz Jennings reading his book 'I Am Jazz'
youtu.be/BF5D2lsPfsU

Kai Shappley - trans at 4 years old
youtu.be/cuIkLNsRtas

Susie Green Mermaids CEO - TedTalk
www.ted.com/talks/susie_green_transgender_a_mother_s_story

These are accounts of 'trans children' from themselves and parents.
If someone can explain to me how these accounts don't show that stereotypes are the basis of the whole thing, I'll be very surprised.

I think in the days of realising that trans people are a larger demographic than we first thought and that they need different language and different support to women... Mistakes are going to be made.

Where a large part of the om unity is struggling to accept trans people, that acceptance might sometimes be a bit overzealous...

It will all settle down in time

JaneJudge

Dickens

pinkprincess

One of my granddaughters, who is in her early twenties has just had a letter rom the NHS inviting her to go for a cervical smear test ''because she was assigned female at birth''
AIBU to suggest this is PC going too far?

If this is the standard letter sent out by the NHS - why don't they invite for a "cervical smear test", based on the simple fact that the invitee has a cervix? I can't see the need to qualify that with any other reason.

Unfortunately a lot of women wont know they have a cervix or what a cervix is.

If they don't know they have a cervix or what it is, they are unlikely to understand what a smear test is or whey they need it.

If there are that many individuals who really don't know what a cervix is, then a simple explanation of the test, with a diagram - might be more helpful than including the "assigned female at birth" statement.

lots of people are scared and prejudiced against people that are not like them.

Which has given rise to stereotypes, and to some people feeling that their need not to fit with the stereotype usually associated with their sex means they are not that sex - and so they claim to be the opposite sex or to be no sex at all (non-binary).

Why can't society just loosen off on the stereotypes instead of claiming that biological sex means nothing?

Doodledog

Yeah, pretty much the same thing, so why did you ask me to clarify?

For someone who hadn’t thought about it before you seem bang up to speed all of a sudden. Fair enough - it’s not complicated, which is why I was surprised that you needed to ask. There have been threads on the topic for ages. You must have read them - even to have decided they were not for you, so it seemed odd that you wanted the basics explained.

Any comments about the SNP position? It’s a bit of a political hot potato, as you may be noticing now your interest is piqued.

Yeah, pretty much the same thing, so why did you ask me to clarify?

To make a point.

For someone who hadn’t thought about it before you seem bang up to speed all of a sudden.

Because I'm clever. But I thought that since people were so angry about it I must be missing something. I wasn't.

Haven't decided about the SNP position yet. I'm thinking about it.

Everything is of its time, everything slowly evolves .
We are all children of our ‘particular’ time.

Yeah, pretty much the same thing, so why did you ask me to clarify?

For someone who hadn’t thought about it before you seem bang up to speed all of a sudden. Fair enough - it’s not complicated, which is why I was surprised that you needed to ask. There have been threads on the topic for ages. You must have read them - even to have decided they were not for you, so it seemed odd that you wanted the basics explained.

Any comments about the SNP position? It’s a bit of a political hot potato, as you may be noticing now your interest is piqued.

VioletSky

I don't think I'd be very secure as a woman if an advertising slogan made me feel reduced in any way.

They are free to advertise as they wish, whether they are successful or not is all the feedback they need.

TBH, I was more offended by the idea period blood could be represented by blue water as if red was something to be ashamed of.

Or the thought that we'd all be off rollerblading in white trousers if we just used the right kind of sanitary towel.

That advertising for you, mostly silly

Advertising often reinforces stereotypes, or did. A look back at some of the ads from the 40s / 50s will show that.

Does it matter? Well, if some bigoted individual has his or her fears and insecurities confirmed and pandered to by certain adverts, then to some of us, it does matter.

As a teenager, I used to be intensely irritated by ads depicting women dressed in high-heels and pretty dresses covered by a pristine apron, smilingly stirring pots on the stove as her husband came through the door with briefcase and bowler.

Why did it bother me? Because I was an ambitious female who met prejudice in the workplace based on that fact alone. A woman's place is in the home and kitchen was very much a commonplace idea when I was growing up.

Advertising might be "silly" - but it works - hence all the pop-ups on any site you visit on the 'net, and in newspapers - whether at a subliminal level or otherwise.

Those ads from the 50s have all but disappeared, because they have been challenged. Not by 'insecure' women, but by women (and some men) who viewed them as patronising and objectifying.

but that lots of people are scared and prejudiced against people that are not like them.
Works both ways. You could equally mean the men and trans people who are scared and prejudiced against people who are not like them.

Actually I thought you meant intrinsic, but it's the same thing, I guess.

I can't help it if you think my thread from yesterday was disingenuous, but it wasn't. I've never commented on a trans thread before and now that I know a bit more about it I might start. What have I learnt? That in fact I wasn't missing out on any deep philosophical point, but that lots of people are scared and prejudiced against people that are not like them.

Oh, and Doodledog - how is sex "endemic"? That's new.
It not, of course - I meant innate. As I’m sure you could deduce from the context.

You know, I thought your thread yesterday was disingenuous - it seems I was right.

Rosie51

This is just a sample.

"Bleeders" so nice, so inclusive.

For those unaware Herstory was developed because women were frequently omitted from history. Ironic eh?

JKR is the devil incarnate and her objectors are so rational. This was the most inoffensive post I could find.

Saw this on Mumsnet.
My first thought was that ‘bleeders’ was traditionally used in quite a different sense!
‘Look what that little bleeder been and gorn and done now!’

What kind of argument is that 25Avalon? Shall we delete all the threads that aren't about Ukraine, so that we're not distracted?