Assigned female at birth

Was it a dead parrot you had booked for trisher? That’s like saying it dreadful that a bus I wasn’t going to catch has been cancelled.
I didn’t hear you when complain when activists were hurling abuse and cancelling prominent females who were brave enough to be truthful and say sex is immutable.
That’s nice trisher.

Doodledog

Would you please respond to your direct accusation that my pointing out that a poetry event moving online was not cancellation (and in fact opened it up to more people) was the same as supporting violence, trisher?

Or is it ok for you to throw around libellous accusations, but different when you read them into the comments of others?

Doodledog the organisers have said they would move the event on-line .It hasn't happened yet so to all intents and purposes the event no longer exists therefore it is cancelled.I've been on the website and tried to find tickets for the on-line event there aren't any. If and when it appears I will apologise until then it's cancelled. It no longer exists. It is a dead parrot event.

trisher and when you see that translates to attacks on lesbians or other masculine looking woman...

It's very obvious it is transphobia

Would you please respond to your direct accusation that my pointing out that a poetry event moving online was not cancellation (and in fact opened it up to more people) was the same as supporting violence, trisher?

Or is it ok for you to throw around libellous accusations, but different when you read them into the comments of others?

Chewbacca

No Doodledog; that's not what's being said but, for those who have firmly placed themselves in the position of being transactivists apologists, and running out of excuses to explain why men are hounding and threatening vulnerable women from having any platform whatsoever, their stance is understandable. The message sent from the TRAs last night was simply "We don't give a damn what your experiences are. We couldn't care less that you too have suffered violence, abuse and fear; you aren't important, we are what matters. We will harass you, threaten you, violate you until you are silent." And it appears that the allies of the transgender activists are cool with that because, afterall, words matter.

I hope then Chewbacca that you are not trying to imply that any of the people who have posted support for transpeople on GN are in any way included in this. I (and the others )have posted many times our condemnation of all violence or threatening behaviour no matter who is responsible.
Trying to accuse us of supporting violence only serves to. show desperation.
I'll try once more. I do not agree with or support any violence or threats against anyone no matter what their views, gender, sex, sexual proclivity, political alegiance or any other designation which is used to divide human beings. It is all wrong.
Peace and love Chewbacca Peace and love.

Yes, the misogyny is clear to see.

I know I've said it before, but the 'akin to homophobia' trope is so wearing. It just doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny, is hotly disputed by many gay people, and is such a cliche that I would be embarrassed to trot it out, even if I believed it.

It is not 'feminine' (whatever that means) transpeople who are being objected to. It is the bearded, gruff-voiced, penis-waving brigade, who are, as you say, Chewbacca, simply asserting their maleness in female spaces who trouble so-called GCFs.

How many times do we have to say that we are not transphobic, and are, in fact, supportive of 'genuine' (I know!) transpeople who just want to live their lives?

No Doodledog; that's not what's being said but, for those who have firmly placed themselves in the position of being transactivists apologists, and running out of excuses to explain why men are hounding and threatening vulnerable women from having any platform whatsoever, their stance is understandable. The message sent from the TRAs last night was simply "We don't give a damn what your experiences are. We couldn't care less that you too have suffered violence, abuse and fear; you aren't important, we are what matters. We will harass you, threaten you, violate you until you are silent." And it appears that the allies of the transgender activists are cool with that because, afterall, words matter.

Trisher, I know this will be a waste of time but you simply refuse to understand when you post
The "phobia" suffix is used to imply an irrational fear or hatred

-the fear of the supposed TW on that ward of traumatised women was neither irrational nor hatred. Some were there because their attack by a male, or someone they believed to be female, but wasn’t, had caused their breakdown. Some were suffering from paranoia related to males. Although . . . I suppose you or “someone”, would refer to both those as irrational fears.
Rather, the hatred was being displayed by the supposed TW. Possibly he hated them for being the female he wasn’t and could never be. Who knows? Displaying as a male on a female ward and declaring he couldn’t be moved? That sort of behaviour is definitely irrational.

I don't think that saying that someone with a penis on show is not even trying to look like a woman is phobic, though.

Seriously - if we are told that being a woman is a nebulous concept that can't be put into words, even by people who are women themselves, and that people who not only have penises, but who flaunt them at women, or (worst case scenario) use them to rape women, how are we meant to accept that transwomen are women? How?

Someone please answer that, as I just don't understand how it's meant to work.

I was wondering how many times on these threads it has been posted that transwomen don't really look like/dress like/behave like natal women? Such comments are transphobic
Transphobia is an emotional disgust toward individuals who do not conform to society's gender expectations. Similar to homophobia, the fear or aversion to homosexuals (e.g., Weinberg, 1972), transphobia involves the feeling of revulsion to masculine women, feminine men, cross-dressers, transgenderists, and/or transsexuals... The "phobia" suffix is used to imply an irrational fear or hatred, one that is at least partly perpetuated by cultural ideology. (Hill and Willoughby 2005: 91)
Sums up a lot of the opinons expressed on these threads..

I’m sure I’ve been told by “someone” that we wouldn’t know some TW aren’t women and that they have been accessing female spaces for ages.
Why then would we know that some TW accessing female spaces aren’t really female?

Because there are those who make it quite obvious that they are claiming to be TW for purposes other than a desire to be a different gender.

Those like the tw!! on the women’s ward, in a mental health facility, parading round with everything on show in a ward of already traumatised women and announcing that any attempt to remove him would mean the staff were transphobic!
I suspect “someones” might support his claim.

Those like Liar Thomas, who not only cheated in sport but demonstrated he was a male in the female changing rooms.

Why would Woman’s Place UK want female only spaces? See above.

If only these TRAs in the baying mob, would turn their attention to supporting genuine trans by showing that they too reject the behaviour of the ‘minority’ of TW!!s, it would benefit not only AHF women but also genuine transwomen.

But it would take better brains than those in the baying mob to realise that.

I’m sick of women being murdered , 2 a week by men. Sick of transactivists behaving like violent, controlling, oppressive men.

*Returning to this thread after a break (lemsips and sleep)
My energy levels are low so forgive me for quoting Galaxy and Doodledog. It’s like Ground Hog day.*

I hope you get better soon, Iam. It must have been a stinker of a cold.

No doubt "someone" will trot along shortly to point out that "it's only a minority of trans who behave in this way.”

Would “someone” use that excuse and say its only a minority of police who murder women, it’s only a minority of teachers who have inappropriate relationships with pupils? . . . Apart from the the evils of the acts themselves, the damage they do to the reputation of other members of the police or teaching profession is immense. As is the damage done to females and the reputation of transpeople by this ‘minority’ of trans and the vociferous supporters of this ‘minority’.

Hundreds of people marched through Manchester city centre on Thursday night in a transphobia protest. The protest, organised by members of the Manchester Trans Rise Up group, was arranged to coincide with a conference being held by Woman's Place UK, ^a feminist group focused on women’s sex-based rights and protections in the UK. They allege some of the viewpoints shared by Woman's Place UK are ‘transphobic’ due to its campaigning for ‘single-sex’ spaces.

“We believe Woman's Place UK is trying to make women-only spaces that exclude the existence of trans women. We feel that it’s important to stand up against that.”

Cross posted, Chewbacca. Yours was a powerful post that shows how indefensible support for the violence of TRAs can be. It doesn’t have to be physical violence - punches don’t have to be thrown for acts to be frightening and intimidating. Shouting women down is violent and, as we keep seeing, is not uncommon.

It is, and then we get accused of posting ’same old, same old’.

I’ve said it before, but it’s a simple enough situation- there’s really not much different to be said. Just increasing numbers of examples, and a need to refute libellous accusations and blatant inaccuracies and twisted words.

At the Women's Place meeting in Manchester last night, the voices of the speakers were drowned out by a large crowd of noisy, aggressive and verbally violent transactivists. 2 of the guest speakers were Maggy Mono, an African asylum seeker who wanted to tell her experience of the horrors of FGM and forced abortions that were visited on her fellow women in the name of "culture". And why single sex 'safe space' is vital for those women. Another speaker was Judith Green, a female survivor of childhood sexual abuse. Their voices were drowned out by screams, chants and shouts of "GET THE TERFS OUT! YOU'RE A BUNCH OF WANKERS!"

All those women wanted to do was to hold a peaceful meeting, to discuss their experiences of the abuse and harm that has been done to them, and why they had been forced to flee their homes in order to save their lives. But they weren't allowed to do that. Because a significant number of transactivists decided to silence them, shut them down, cancel them out. Such was the sheer number and aggression of protesters, the police had to be called to protect the women inside and to provide them with a safe escort when they wanted to leave.

No doubt "someone" will trot along shortly to point out that "it's only a minority of trans who behave in this way; the majority just want to live their lives in peace". I have no doubt that is true. But women just want to live their lives in peace too; some of those women had fled half way around the world to find their peace. But they learnt last night that the transactivists lobby won't allow them to speak; they are not alliwed a voice, they cannot speak of their experiences as women. They won't allow any woman to speak. So, this morning, I'm so angry about it all that, quite frankly, I don't give a rats ass where they go to the toilets; that's the least of our worries. I'm far more worried that ordinary, and extraordinary women, are being told SHUT UP, MOVE OVER, MAKE ROOM. And worst of all "be **ing kind".

Doodledog
Galaxy
As I have said many women worried about accessing refuges, women traumatised after being raped and assaulted in prison. Its a clash of rights.
Yes, and for the millionth time- it is not a clash between the rights of genuine transwomen and women’s rights. Not on the whole. It is a clash between the rights that women have fought for and the agenda of misogynistic TRAs, who want to remove those rights and don’t care that transpeople are caught in the crossfire.

Transpeople are also victims in all this.
Returning to this thread after a break (lemsips and sleep)
My energy levels are low so forgive me for quoting Galaxy and Doodledog. It’s like Ground Hog day.

Sadly yes.

Doodledog

Galaxy

As I have said many women worried about accessing refuges, women traumatised after being raped and assaulted in prison. Its a clash of rights.

Yes, and for the millionth time- it is not a clash between the rights of genuine transwomen and women’s rights. Not on the whole. It is a clash between the rights that women have fought for and the agenda of misogynistic TRAs, who want to remove those rights and don’t care that transpeople are caught in the crossfire.

Transpeople are also victims in all this.

Returning to this thread after a break (lemsips and sleep)
My energy levels are low so forgive me for quoting Galaxy and Doodledog. It’s like Ground Hog day.

Galaxy

As I have said many women worried about accessing refuges, women traumatised after being raped and assaulted in prison. Its a clash of rights.

Yes, and for the millionth time- it is not a clash between the rights of genuine transwomen and women’s rights. Not on the whole. It is a clash between the rights that women have fought for and the agenda of misogynistic TRAs, who want to remove those rights and don’t care that transpeople are caught in the crossfire.

Transpeople are also victims in all this.

And as many on here have said toilets can generally be easily solved, other single sex provision not so much.

As I have said many women worried about accessing refuges, women traumatised after being raped and assaulted in prison. Its a clash of rights.

Mollygo

Or if you can just for a moment understand that trans people are scared to go to the toilet and how that's a massive problem for other human beings
Reference to statistics?
Proof?
Your opinion?

Or you could prove me wrong

Would you believe a woman saying it?

inews.co.uk/news/uk/butch-lesbian-public-toilet-women-abuse-government-review-gender-neutral-facilities-833787

There are many women scared to use refuges, for example. I am going to continue talking about single sex provision.