Assigned female at birth

Galaxy

Sorry that happened Jane. That sounds horrible.

the thread was quickly deleted for what it is worth but it was horrible. I doubt it is unique to MN having seen what is posted on facebook in plain view

Or if you can just for a moment understand that trans people are scared to go to the toilet and how that's a massive problem for other human beings
Reference to statistics?
Proof?
Your opinion?

That's just a long winded way of saying

"no you are"

We aren't 5.

If any of what I said last night made you think a little bit about why the way things are being discussed matters..

Or if you can just for a moment understand that trans people are scared to go to the toilet and how that's a massive problem for other human beings

That would at least be something

As much as I can see this just shoots yourself in the foot because you don't actually listen to what is said. You can't and I have no need to continually watch people shoot themselves in the foot and I'd rather go to bed.
Some of posters have the knack of saying exactly what their own posts appear to do to those who read them. Thank you for proving that. You saved me a job..

Anyone who imagines men have "handed over" women's sport is really unaware of what is really happening and who controls sport. It certainly isn't women.

I didn't say that men had 'handed over' women's sport. I said that women had fought for the right to compete and exist separately where biology matters and together with men where it doesn't. I specifically said 'not just sport' - how much clearer can I make it, but still, I get misquoted so that I can be disparaged.

As for silencing it isn't one sided any more than abuse is. You only have to read these threads to realise that.
I haven't silenced anyone. I don't think that I have been abusive either. I have said that IMO there is a definite misogyny underpinning a lot of what goes on in the name of TRA, and I believe that to be true. If you want to extrapolate from that that I think you are a misogynist, I can't help that, but I do try to be as measured as I can, even when I am being accused of saying things that I haven't (see above), and misunderstood in ways that seem wilful.

You have, of course, ignored the rest of the post you quoted, as that dealt with the way that TRAs are commandeering the language, so that before long not only will women not be able to be together without male-bodied people, they won't even be able to discuss female issues, as the vocabulary will be gone. You ignored that to concentrate on misquoting me to suggest that I think that men have 'given away' sport (which doesn't even make sense) and that I am capable of silencing others and abusing them. I'm really not.

Please don't misrepresent me like this. It's tiresome, and prevents the discussion from moving on when I have to keep returning to set the record straight.

That’s nice. Sleep well.

Mollygo

I do believe that the violent words used by protesters at the VAW March could incite others to actual physical violence or lead to someone else feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive.
That has been proven true. Every time groups like VAW or WWW have a meeting or even a peaceful protest, the TRAs and hangers on, turn up and use the sort of violent words mentioned above, which could possibly, and frequently do, lead to someone in the objecting group feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive.
It’s not often I want to congratulate a poster on their choice of words, but the emboldened text above describes exactly the behaviour of TRAs, their hangers on and some TW.

This is why talking to you guys is just wasting time that matters to me.

I know this. You aren't making a point. Every trans ally prominent in these threads have denounced this kind of violence.

I have previously explained I take a moderate stance to not embolden that sort of behaviour.

I also know that average everyday trans people are not responsible for this.

As much as I can see this just shoots yourself in the foot because you don't actually listen to what is said. You can't and I have no need to continually watch people shoot themselves in the foot and I'd rather go to bed.

Thats fine VS. I dont think peope can change sex. I have always been really clear on that.

Galaxy

The equality act allows for spaces to be single sex and for in cases where is deemed necessary for men to be excluded. This is not discrimination. Sex is a protected characteristic under the equality act.
Womens Aid for example have just stated their commitment in certain circumstances to single sex spaces. Is that an example of incitement or hate speech.

No it's an example of an objective need on an individual basis. Which doesn't apply in all circumstances as the equality act lays out.

As you continie to call trans women men though I'm not comfortable continuing this discussion with you

I do believe that the violent words used by protesters at the VAW March could incite others to actual physical violence or lead to someone else feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive.
That has been proven true. Every time groups like VAW or WWW have a meeting or even a peaceful protest, the TRAs and hangers on, turn up and use the sort of violent words mentioned above, which could possibly, and frequently do, lead to someone in the objecting group feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive.
It’s not often I want to congratulate a poster on their choice of words, but the emboldened text above describes exactly the behaviour of TRAs, their hangers on and some TW.

The equality act allows for spaces to be single sex and for in cases where is deemed necessary for men to be excluded. This is not discrimination. Sex is a protected characteristic under the equality act.
Womens Aid for example have just stated their commitment in certain circumstances to single sex spaces. Is that an example of incitement or hate speech.

Galaxy

You havent answered my question VS. But I will answer yours. If there was a man in a woman space, no I wouldnt challenge them.

I am answering, I wanted to get my thoughts in order.

You wouldnt challenge them.

Yet many on these threads have stated they do not want trans women in women's toilets.

Gender reassignment is now a protected characteristic under the equality act. It is illegal to discriminate directly or indirectly.

Trans women have been verbally abused, spat at and attacked using the toilet that aligns with their gender which is direct discrimination.

Trans women have been told they cannot use the toilets that align with their gender in businesses and venues which is indirect discrimination.

Social media does not have toilets but some social media has decided as a business, and out of respect to all their users, they won't allow an entire forum or topic that states "I don't want this person in this space" as they view this as indirect discrimination.

They also view this as incitement to violence or hate speech because their toilets may be metaphorical but one person's "I don't want you in this space" emboldens another's verbal attack, push, punch, spit... Etc.

Perhaps you truly do not see that what is said on these discussions could possibly lead to someone else feeling emboldened to be verbally or physically abusive but words have power and its been shown this is the case throughout history.

This is the simplest example I could think of.

grannydarkhair I admire your perseverance in trying to get answers, especially considering the risk.

Galaxy

Just for anyone reading. I believe you can’t change sex. I believe that women are entitled to single sex spaces (and Womens Aid today agree with me) and I am concerned about the treatment provided to young people with gender dysphoria which appears from the latest reports and inspection results to be wholly inadequate. I assume none of these viewpoints are considered to incite violence.

Galaxy I’m with you on all those points.
Good of you to answer about challenging a man in a woman’s space. I’ll take it one stage further. I wouldn’t challenge him because I believe that males who deliberately invade spaces intended for females have no good reason for being there, though I can already feel the rush of ‘would you?’ questions and ‘what if? excuses being composed.
Would I report him? Yes I would and if I could surreptitiously obtain a photo I would add that to my report.

The fact that demands by some TW and TWA continue to try and deny safe spaces for females including female toilets is appalling. Males are not females. I’m happy to tell the truth but I’m bitterly disappointed and appalled that some of the people trying to perpetrate the lie that TWAW , or twist vocabulary to try and validate their claims are actually females themselves.

Regarding the inadequate and potentially dangerous treatment of young people who may or have gender dysphoria is providing growing employment in for those able to help, in a medical or legal rôle, the increasing number of young or older people who have found that the treatment didn’t solve their problems and even ruined their future lives.
The need for an increasing number of workers in this field is not something to be proud of.

VioletSky The violence at the VAW march was committed by trans activists against women.
And whilst that BBC article refers to actual violence, many transphobic hate crime reports are just that, reports. Reports that waste countless hours of police activity. Many GC women (and men), gays and lesbians have been reported to the police for supposed violence, eg Marion Millar for her ribbons, the woman with the stickers in Bath/Bristol?, Ceri Black for comments on Twitter about paedophiles, Graham Linehan for virtually anything that he does or say.
Do any of those compare to the number of women who have been murdered in the UK since 2016?

You havent answered my question VS. But I will answer yours. If there was a man in a woman space, no I wouldnt challenge them.

galaxy were you to enter a ladies toilet and find yourself standing next to someone who you felt were trans, would you ask them to leave?

Just for anyone reading. I believe you cant change sex. I believe that women are entitled to single sex spaces (and Womens Aid today agree with me) and I am concerned about the treatment provided to young people with gender dysphoria which appears from the latest reports and inspection results to be wholly inadequate. I assume none of these viewpoints are considered to incire violence.

I am still here sorry I have not posted anymore also overwhelmed

Sorry I need to ask this again. Are you saying there are posts on MN and GN that incite violence that are allowdd to stand.

Violence at violence against women march thread is the most recent I remember

Or you can look for yourself at where this started in 2016 when I think it was Theresa May who first announced big changes. And the growth in hate crime since. Which has ramped up in line with discussion.

Baring in mind that it is only reported crime that shows this increase. Many trans people are afraid to report crimes because they don't feel the police are immune to public feeling and don't think they will be helped. Or, they have reported things in the past and not been helped.

This is a very serious issue

Google has a wealth of information if you Google "rise in hate crimes against trans people".

The video I posted you will find. One of those interviewed was raped so it's quite upsetting

VioletSky I haven’t seen your links, can you remember which thread they were on?

Everyone = 2

grannydarkhair

VioletSky twice (at least) on these “trans” threads, you’ve said that violence/crimes against trans people is/are on the rise. The only violence that I’ve seen mentioned in all these threads had been committed by trans activists against women. So can you provide proof of this statement? I did ask you this on another thread but never received an answer.

I've posted news articles and video. No one opened the link or commented on it. That's not my fault

The last legal case classified GC belief it as a protected belief so am not sure what to say about that. Are you saying there is language on MN or GN that incites violence that is allowed to stand? I am just not clear if thats what you mean.

VioletSky I’ve challenged it, see my previous post, please provide proof of this “quadrupled” increase.