Parents deliberately winding up children

Yes the man who rudely asked him to quiet down certainly wasnt worried about a rude response...

I agree asking politely would have been fine and definitely saved poor dad some embarassment and hurt

Aussienanna The OP asked if people in restaurants etc should have more self awareness not if she or anyone else should ask them to be quiet. Maybe you, yourself, are comfortable asking people to stop doing something you don’t like but not everyone is.

Grandpanow

Based on the comments here, she’s not unusual for this thread. Perhaps for the wider population

I haven’t seen any comments on here that would lead anyone to believe certain posters think service industry staff are their personal servants.

As for getting up and leaving, that’s the last thing the restaurant would want. Strange that you would rather they lose custom over such a trivial matter - it’s people’s livelihoods.

The concern was about getting a rude or dismissive or defensive response. My friend used to run a restaurant and they preferred problems to be raised with staff rather than customers getting into altercations, which happened several times.

This is a father playing with his kid - where does the concern come from about being violent for being called out?
That's catastrophic thinking

"Cut it out" and "we cannot hear ourselves thinking" was not a very polite way to request the father to stop the activity

I agree that if I have an issue with a fellow patron, I politely point it out.
No need to involve the staff.

No, neither have I.
And a father getting a bit loud with his toddler hardly seems a case for security staff.

or even something that comes under bad behaviour - they were just getting a bit loud, thats all - and stopped as soon as they were made aware of it.

I have had occasion to ask people to lower their volume at work - and I politely ask people in the waiting room - its getting bit loud, could you lower your volume please - and they do
Sometimes people just don't realise how loud they have become, thats all.

I have never had to ask staff to speak to another customer for me while dining. So I wouldn’t consider it normal behavior at all.

tickingbird

*Aussienanna*. As related upthread “polite requests” aren’t always met with a similar response. I can only speak about the UK but people are becoming more aggressive - women too.

Mentioning it to a member of staff is appropriate as they have back up and usually have procedures in place for any incidents. Thankfully the chap was fine, didn’t realise how loud he was being and stopped. Not all men would and sometimes small incidents such as this end up with people being badly injured or worse. I don’t blame the OP for being loathe to speak to him herself.

well, can only speak from my own experience - where most people are nice if you are nice to them.

But, sure, if you are not confident speaking to him directly, ask a staff member to do so.

I personally prefer people to speak to me directly if they have a problem with me.

seems extremely unlikely anyone would get injured or worse in this sort of situation.

it was a father having fun with his toddler and not realising it had got too noisy - thats all.
Not something I would think needs an official procedure to deal with

Grandpanow

I have noticed that many people of the GN generation tend to believe anyone in the service industry is personally employed by them. I saw a woman ask her waiter to go fetch her purse out of her car while the poor man had five tables waiting on him.

In any case, as decency element, I do think if you genuinely fear “abuse”, then sending a manager to do it isn’t any better. Why does the manager have to be “badly injured” so that you can eat in the peace and quiet you want? There’s nothing preventing the OP from leaving (as would be reasonable if there is a genuine fear of physical attacks).

Oh for goodness sake. It is perfectly normal to bring bad behaviour in a public place to the attention of management. They have policies, procedures, access to security staff sometimes.

Based on the comments here, she’s not unusual for this thread. Perhaps for the wider population.

I have noticed that many people of the GN generation tend to believe anyone in the service industry is personally employed by them. I saw a woman ask her waiter to go fetch her purse out of her car while the poor man had five tables waiting on him.

I am sure she is unusual and I do not believe that many people of the GN generation tend to believe anyone in the service industry is personally employed by them.

I have noticed that many people of the GN generation tend to believe anyone in the service industry is personally employed by them. I saw a woman ask her waiter to go fetch her purse out of her car while the poor man had five tables waiting on him.

In any case, as decency element, I do think if you genuinely fear “abuse”, then sending a manager to do it isn’t any better. Why does the manager have to be “badly injured” so that you can eat in the peace and quiet you want? There’s nothing preventing the OP from leaving (as would be reasonable if there is a genuine fear of physical attacks).

welbeck an apt reference .

We often received complements on our boys behaviour when they were young, and I always say to parents how well behaved their children have been.

I agree tickingbird that had this been mentioned to a member of staff that would have been appropriate, and had the staff member felt uncomfortable, they could have asked the manager to intervene.

Grandpanow

If there was a concern he would act aggressively, then I think it’s very unreasonable to ask the staff to confront him. If I were concerned someone would “abuse” me if I asked them to a stop doing something, I would not send a hapless employee be abused instead.

We were mentioning the problem to the staff member on the assumption he would either follow some official procedure for these situations or fetch the manager.
In the sane way people will draw a problem in the theatre or cinema to staffs' attention, or ring reception in a hotel if there's unreasonable levels of noise coming from a wedding. Perfectly normal approach I would have thought.

Aussienanna. As related upthread “polite requests” aren’t always met with a similar response. I can only speak about the UK but people are becoming more aggressive - women too.

Mentioning it to a member of staff is appropriate as they have back up and usually have procedures in place for any incidents. Thankfully the chap was fine, didn’t realise how loud he was being and stopped. Not all men would and sometimes small incidents such as this end up with people being badly injured or worse. I don’t blame the OP for being loathe to speak to him herself.

If there was a concern he would act aggressively, then I think it’s very unreasonable to ask the staff to confront him. If I were concerned someone would “abuse” me if I asked them to a stop doing something, I would not send a hapless employee be abused instead.

tickingbird

^Why would you assume that?^

Nothing he had done was aggressive.

Aussienanna. It’s an unfortunate sign of the times. He hadn’t been aggressive but he hadn’t been challenged had he? How was the OP to know he wouldn’t react badly?

He hadnt been politely asked yet either - when he was, he immediatly stopped.

I find that is usually the case, people respond reasonably to reasonable requests, and people suddenly becoming aggressive is not the norm.

and he was in an inside public place - liklihood of him starting a punch up were extremely minimal

yes you should adapt your voice - but it is very easy to get louder than you realise - and then to adjsut down when politely asked.

It is NOT unreasonable to find a situation such as the OP states just that, unreasonable!

people forget to bring any manners they may have been taught ...out with them!
you should adapt your voice to the space you occupy and not fill the place with yourselves!

Why would you assume that?

Nothing he had done was aggressive.

Aussienanna. It’s an unfortunate sign of the times. He hadn’t been aggressive but he hadn’t been challenged had he? How was the OP to know he wouldn’t react badly?

Sorry, meant to add that the last time I politely knocked on an apartment door to ask if the noise could be kept down I got a mouthful of abuse from the 'respectable' professional woman who lived there.
You never know with people.

I didn't 'assume' anything Aussienana.

AussieNanna

Vintagejazz

coastalgran

Oh joy, the entitled parent who ignores everyone else in order to have what they consider to be a good time instead of playing quietly with their child, for them it has to be look at us isn't my child wonderful. By all means be proud of your child, but for goodness sake do it quietly. The person who intervened was lucky that they met with a responsive parent and didn't get an abusive answer.

Yes this is why we were going to mention it to staff. We couldn't be sure, if we spoke directly to him, that we wouldn't either be told to F off, or subjected to indignant or dirty looks for the rest of our meal.

Why would you assume that?

Nothing he had done was aggressive.

Generally the best way to let people know there is a problem is to politely tell them - like the other diners did.

Generally the best way to let people know there is a problem is to politely tell them - like the other diners did.

The very last time I saw an individual let 'someone know there was a problem' by politely telling them, was when I watched my (late) ex-partner get punched in the mouth for daring to ask that a couple of male adults stop kicking a ball close to an outside dining area in our local park (one had a young child with him).

I still remember my own son crying in terror as he watched the two of them pile on to his father repeatedly and the blood pouring from a cut lip.

They weren't aggressive either, to start with.

I think it's a pretty fair assumption - you just don't know how someone - especially a man who seems impervious to social 'niceties' in the first place - is going to react.

The plain and simple fact is that men can react aggressively if challenged. Most probably don't do that - but how the hell are you supposed to know whether they will or not?

... and people do get told to "F-off", frequently. Some men - and not a few women - get angry when they're challenged.

Vintagejazz

coastalgran

Oh joy, the entitled parent who ignores everyone else in order to have what they consider to be a good time instead of playing quietly with their child, for them it has to be look at us isn't my child wonderful. By all means be proud of your child, but for goodness sake do it quietly. The person who intervened was lucky that they met with a responsive parent and didn't get an abusive answer.

Yes this is why we were going to mention it to staff. We couldn't be sure, if we spoke directly to him, that we wouldn't either be told to F off, or subjected to indignant or dirty looks for the rest of our meal.

Why would you assume that?

Nothing he had done was aggressive.

Generally the best way to let people know there is a problem is to politely tell them - like the other diners did.

the reference, though fictional, rings true.
from Vanity Fair by william makepeace thackeray.

Smileless2012

Actually Dylant we knew someone just like that who only interacted with his children when he had an audience.

sounds like becky sharp crawley, with her son little rawdon, who gives the game away when visiting by saying, mama why do you not kiss me at home ?