In thinking that it is time that this country separated church and state?

Fleurpepper

Normandygirl 'All it means, is that religion cannot have any political power or state funding, so there are no state funded faith schools'

that is sadly a misconception. Private Catholic Church schools in France are very cheap, because they get massive funding from State, due to Debré Law- 9 billion a year currently.

In a Secular State, it should not happen, but it does.

There are state funded Roman Catholic, Jewish, Muslim faith schools in the UK, as well as Anglican schools.

C of E bishops sit in the House of Lords but no other religious leaders from England, and no bishops or religious leaders from any other country in the United Kingdom. That is clealrly unjust

That is not the case, Noola
Leaders of other religions may sit n the House of Lords but not automatically, as the Lords Spiritual may do.

Roman Catholic bishops have been offered seats but have refused as it is against the edicts of their church.

I think that, as long as we do have an unelected Upper House, religious leaders may offer a different and welcome perspective to proceedings.

volver

Slight diversion...

but I love it that one of the recurring complaints about an elected Head of State is "but we'd have to elect them! How awful!"

Having to elect them is the point. 😀

The point is it probably wouldn't cost any less

#notanotherone

For anyone who might be interested, here is a link

www.jstor.org/stable/23914319

Normandygirl 'All it means, is that religion cannot have any political power or state funding, so there are no state funded faith schools'

that is sadly a misconception. Private Catholic Church schools in France are very cheap, because they get massive funding from State, due to Debré Law- 9 billion a year currently.

In a Secular State, it should not happen, but it does.

The Church of England must be disestablished as soon as possible!

It receives certain privileges yet is a minority group in the country.

C of E bishops sit in the House of Lords but no other religious leaders from England, and no bishops or religious leaders from any other country in the United Kingdom. That is clealrly unjust. If Scotland doesn't need them why does England, and how can they possibly speak, say, for Northern Ireland!

Disestablishment would mean the C of E could choose its bishops and not have the Prime Minister and Monarch having the final word. It would also give the monarch freedom to choose whatever faith they want to belong to - at present they are obliged by law to be C of E.

The C of E received massive endowments at the Reformation, unlike say, the Church of Scotland. This endowments could be used by the state to create a fund for English Heritage to look after C of E churches that are listed.

Slight diversion...

but I love it that one of the recurring complaints about an elected Head of State is "but we'd have to elect them! How awful!"

Having to elect them is the point. 😀

FarNorth

You know that the CofE exists only in England?
The CofS has no connection with the monarch.
I don't know about Wales and N Ireland.

The church of Ireland ( Anglican church in NI and ROI)was disestablished in 1869.

Callistemon21

Normandygirl

Callistemon21

Normandygirl

If state and church were separated would there be any point to the coronation at all? In fact would there be any point to the monarchy at all? Head of the C of E seems to be the only legitimate role the King has left, I can't think of any other.

Head of State?

We do need one 🙂

Head of State in name only, used for ceremonial occasions has no practical purpose though.

I beg to differ.

And better than one with political leanings and constant elections and electioneering.

Why would an elected H of S have "political leanings"?

Better as it us. Charles defender of all faiths. To be perfect an ideal in reality impossible, we all just do our best.

Normandygirl

Callistemon21

Normandygirl

If state and church were separated would there be any point to the coronation at all? In fact would there be any point to the monarchy at all? Head of the C of E seems to be the only legitimate role the King has left, I can't think of any other.

Head of State?

We do need one 🙂

Head of State in name only, used for ceremonial occasions has no practical purpose though.

I beg to differ.

And better than one with political leanings and constant elections and electioneering.

Callistemon21

Normandygirl

If state and church were separated would there be any point to the coronation at all? In fact would there be any point to the monarchy at all? Head of the C of E seems to be the only legitimate role the King has left, I can't think of any other.

Head of State?

We do need one 🙂

Head of State in name only, used for ceremonial occasions has no practical purpose though.

Oh yes, Kevin the teenager, also more recently a carrot?

Don’t suppose many babies are called Kevin these days, but Joking apart the fear and hatred at that time was real.

All teenage boys are called Kevin silverlining

The church is not established in Scotland.

Years ago a Scottish friend told me she would never go out with anyone called Kevin. I didn’t understand what she meant, so she explained; Kevin is a catholic name. New to me.
Also learned of the long term hatred between Celtic and Ranger supporters was religion based.
I told her I had no clue of the religion of people I was friendly with and she said she always knew because of the schools the people had attended. (or if they were called Kevin presumably).
It was 50 odd years ago and hope this is no longer the case but perhaps someone may enlighten me.
As for Charles and religion, as an Atheist I am ambivalent.

nanna8

I don't think of the state when I think of the churches here. The Catholics are in the majority of those who describe themselves as Christian. There are heaps of Catholic schools, both primary and secondary and also some Catholic Universities. All private but they tend to be cheaper than the Protestant schools. A lot cheaper!

Yes, I noticed that too, perhaps because of the very large numbers of Australians whose origins are Irish, Italian, Croatian and other Roman Catholic countries.

I didn't realise Anglican schools were more expensive.

Normandygirl

If state and church were separated would there be any point to the coronation at all? In fact would there be any point to the monarchy at all? Head of the C of E seems to be the only legitimate role the King has left, I can't think of any other.

Head of State?

We do need one 🙂

I don't think of the state when I think of the churches here. The Catholics are in the majority of those who describe themselves as Christian. There are heaps of Catholic schools, both primary and secondary and also some Catholic Universities. All private but they tend to be cheaper than the Protestant schools. A lot cheaper!

The secular society in France does not mean that Christmas, Easter etc are not celebrated, in fact we have more religious bank holidays than the UK. In May there is not a single week without at least one saints day in it.
All it means, is that religion cannot have any political power or state funding, so there are no state funded faith schools and all public offices cannot have any religious symbols on show. A town hall here has just been fined for having a nativity scene on it's frontage so it is strictly enforced.
However most French people are regular church goers and Sunday opening has never really been embraced even though there is nothing to prevent it. I think that is more because they see Sunday as a church and family day and want to keep it that way.

Doodledog ''I have mixed feelings about whether there should be a complete separation. Part of me thinks that religion should be a purely individual (or family) matter, and no particular one should be given precedence, but OTOH, British culture has long been based on the Christian religion, with Christmas and Easter holidays being the main expression of that. ''

How many Christian denominations are there in the UK? And how many are linked to our Government, judiciary, education, etc?

Christmas and most celebrations if the Christian calendar, of so many denominations- go straight back to Pagan days and were just somehow included in the Christian calender.

And the same moral principles apply to all or most other religions too anyhow.

As for the rest, Lucky said it so well. Our ability and willing to live by a decent moral code or tolerance, kindness and support, etc- do NOT need a religious backbone to make sense. Why would you need any religion to tell you not to kill others?

Religion is and should remain a) private b) 100% optional

Most of the monarchs haven’t been exactly paragons of virtue.

Neither have the popes.

If state and church were separated would there be any point to the coronation at all? In fact would there be any point to the monarchy at all? Head of the C of E seems to be the only legitimate role the King has left, I can't think of any other.

Anyone who believes in a virgin birth needs to read a basic biology text.

nadateturbe

The virgin birth is only part of the basis of Christianity, but we seem to have digressed somewhat.

one of the best posts - ever. Brilliant !

Jane71

Most of these posts seem to be about religion itself, but the post was asking whether it should be separated from the state, as in France for instance. It's not about whether religion is a good thing, but whether it has a special place in society, such as C of E bishops sitting in the House of Lords.

Yes, it is.

As I posted above, it is already disestablished in Wales.

Disestablishmentarianism does not mean a person is anti-religion.