In thinking that it is time that this country separated church and state?

I have some sympathy to this point of view, but since some of the leaders in the CofE have become quite political in recent years, I’m not sure. Maybe it’s better as it is.

Most of the monarchs haven’t been exactly paragons of virtue. Think Henry V111, Charles 11. He is just following a long tradition since the pope was ousted as the head. Elizabeth 11 was unusual. Besides, I think he is actually a true believer and a sinner just like all of the rest of mankind. Only God can judge, not man.

I’ve just been looking at an interesting study being Carried out by the Office of National Statistics (ONS). Statistics are seldom completely up-to-date as the data must be analysed and this takes time. It indicates that Christianity is still the largest group, but there’s no division into C of E, RC, etc.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/articles/exploringreligioninenglandandwales/february2020

Blossoming

I’ve just been looking at an interesting study being Carried out by the Office of National Statistics (ONS). Statistics are seldom completely up-to-date as the data must be analysed and this takes time. It indicates that Christianity is still the largest group, but there’s no division into C of E, RC, etc.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/articles/exploringreligioninenglandandwales/february2020

I agree that Christianity is probably still the largest group, but I think the growth of evangelical churches accounts for much of it. Add to that many people who say Christian but are not practising Christians and the number of C of E members probably reduces further.

Of course the CofE should be disestablished. There's no reason why a bunch of bishops should sit in the Lord's or why we should have all the religious flummory around Royal events. More widely, we should get rid of religious schools and the 1944 Act requirement to have religious assembly in schools.

You know that the CofE exists only in England?
The CofS has no connection with the monarch.
I don't know about Wales and N Ireland.

Fully agree with OP. The French seem to have no difficulty with this. The monarch rules by consent of the people, not that of the archbishop of Canterbury standing in for God.

At the queen's funeral I was most dismayed to see the orb and sceptre removed from her coffin and placed on the altar of St George's chapel apparently signifying that her power came from God.

The religious schools, so called, are actually some of the best schools here and their pupils do very, very well. Why discriminate against people who want to send their children to Islamic schools or Jewish schools or Catholic schools or Greek Orthodox or Lutheran or Presbyterian schools. I think that is totally discriminatory and unacceptable.

winterwhite

Fully agree with OP. The French seem to have no difficulty with this. The monarch rules by consent of the people, not that of the archbishop of Canterbury standing in for God.

At the queen's funeral I was most dismayed to see the orb and sceptre removed from her coffin and placed on the altar of St George's chapel apparently signifying that her power came from God.

I think it’s symbolism is the other way winterwhite. That after the coronation the monarch hands over their power and authority acknowledging their is a higher power than themselves.

“King of kings”

I agree with what Grantnow has written.

Oh read too hastily. I’m not sure about after the funeral. I’ll look it up.🙂

Far North I think Charles vowed in his accession to uphold the Church of Scotland ....a kick in the teeth for all of us who have worked against the vile sectarian sector in the West of Scotland .Now they can sing their orange songs and shout F the Pope or even spit on priests as had happened in Glasgow recently and these lowlifes have justification.THEIR King only supports protestants !!
You may think thats a joke but I have heard it said in a local pub .If one braindead orangeman is saying it you can bet there are loadsof others saying it ...and believing it too !
Religion MUST be seperated from state ...or Royalty abolished.

FarNorth

You know that the CofE exists only in England?
The CofS has no connection with the monarch.
I don't know about Wales and N Ireland.

The Church in Wales was disestablished on 31st March 1920.
My husband was ordained priest in the Church in Wales.

I thought King Charles was going to affirm to uphold all faiths ?

paddyann54

*Far North * I think Charles vowed in his accession to uphold the Church of Scotland ....a kick in the teeth for all of us who have worked against the vile sectarian sector in the West of Scotland .Now they can sing their orange songs and shout F the Pope or even spit on priests as had happened in Glasgow recently and these lowlifes have justification.THEIR King only supports protestants !!
You may think thats a joke but I have heard it said in a local pub .If one braindead orangeman is saying it you can bet there are loadsof others saying it ...and believing it too !
Religion MUST be seperated from state ...or Royalty abolished.

Do you know, I had no idea this sectarian intolerance existed in Scotland as well as Ireland. I’m so taken aback I don’t quite now what to say except how ignorant I have been.

Will this cause problems in an Independent Scotland similar to those in Northern Ireland? I’m not making an argument.

It’s not peoples faith or the places of worship that are the problem it’s the extremism and extremists.

There is no legislation that can solve stupidity.

I've been quite sheltered from Scottish sectarianism, too, as I've lived in the east and north of Scotland where it isn't much of a thing .

Was that also the case for Queen Elizabeth, paddyann?

GrannyGravy13

I thought King Charles was going to affirm to uphold all faiths ?

I hope including the 0.7% who follow the Jedi faith.

Surely he could affirm support for everyone to follow their own faith or none.

The monarch is head of the CofE, tho, but I don't know what that means.

I grew up in Glasgow and am well aware of the sectarian intolerance that paddyann mentions. I was hoping that things have improved but while Orange Walks are still happening there will still be headbangers who will latch onto any excuse to vent their spleen. I will be interested to see if Charles chooses to be anointed at his coronation. That can be seen as the monarch being chosen by God. Being head of the C of E means little to three of the four nations so perhaps Charles will do the sensible thing and do away with this part of his reign.

Grantanow

Of course the CofE should be disestablished. There's no reason why a bunch of bishops should sit in the Lord's or why we should have all the religious flummory around Royal events. More widely, we should get rid of religious schools and the 1944 Act requirement to have religious assembly in schools.

I completely agree. Over half the population in England don’t profess any religion, and only a tiny percentage attend a CofE church.
It is totally irrelevant to have bishops sitting and voting in the House of Lords, in a basically secular country.
Disestablishment hasn’t done any harm to Welsh or Irish churches.

PaddyAnn that’s interesting. I’ve always been aware of the often violent sectarianism but I didn’t know Charles had vowed to uphold the Church of Scotland.

This is the oath.

I, Charles the Third, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of My other Realms and Territories, King, Defender of the Faith, do faithfully promise and swear that I shall inviolably maintain and preserve the Settlement of the true Protestant Religion as established by the Laws made in Scotland in prosecution of the Claim of Right and particularly by an Act intituled “An Act for securing the Protestant Religion and Presbyterian Church Government” and by the Acts passed in the Parliament of both Kingdoms for Union of the two Kingdoms, together with the Government, Worship, Discipline, Rights and Privileges of the Church of Scotland. So help me God.

So outdated and inappropriate these days.

I’m an atheist so he won’t be bothered about me, but I’m not bothered about him either!

I assume that the oath about the Church of Scotland dates from the time of the Union. Scotland was to keep its own Presbyterian church as well as its own legal and education systems, and I think that bit might have been put into the oath to dispel any perceived threat from episcopalianism.

Having said that, I can't see that there now needs to be any link between individual churches and the crown, and if King Charles wants to be defender of all faiths, fair enough.

The sectarianism in the West of Scotland is thankfully not as violent as in Northern Ireland, Lathyrus, but is still a horrible and quite intolerable thing. Here in the north-east there is a sizeable Catholic population too, and sectarianism on either side is not a problem. Here, the question "Which school did you go to?" is one relating to geography, not religion, as it can be in the west.