younger relatives don't do conversation

My previous response was to Brownsgirl, not the OP.

A month is a long time to visit and you spent a lot of time with them

That’s the trouble. A month is a long time. My late mum used to say “Short visits make good friends”, which is very true.

When family live a long way away however, it makes sense to stay for quite a while, but after the initial excitement, it all becomes a bit like hard work, for all concerned.

I know from personal experience, with DD and children in Australia. Their routine is disrupted, lots of extra work for those hosting (even if you try and help), and the novelty of having visitors can soon wear off for them all, much as we all love one another.

I can relate to how the OP feels.

Brownsgirl

How would that visit have gone better, in your opinion?

A month is a long time to visit and you spent a lot of time with them

Brownsgirl such a shame you had a disappointing visit.

Thinking along the lines of "if you can't beat them, join them," would it be an idea to have a family WhatsApp group that everyone is on?

We've done this for six adults, grandchildren too young for phones yet, and it works very well.
We can post, read or reply at a time to suit each of us.
We post photos eg of an outing, a newly decorated room, or more recently my younger son's first week of Gousto dinners!

Little snapshots of people's day-to-day lives but it's easier than finding time for a phone call sometimes, especially in such a busy household as your son's.

I was in Canada over Christmas for a month with son and family . My five grandchildren. I was staying air b n b whole time and in their house every day. A very noisy busy home. The three wee ones were fine playing and doing things withNana until the tablets came out then they zoned out . The oldest 2 (11 and 10 )spent most times in their rooms unless I took them out or to the Mall. They rarely talked to me in the house. My son and daughter in law were on their phones constantly . I admit I would end up on my phone too when they all zoned out and no one talked . The only time I had conversations was in the car as no one on their phones or tablets. I am deaf and hearing what is said , even with hearing aids , is hard in a busy household . I moved to an empty room on Christmas Day and none of them noticed for awhile as all on phones and tablets, and then my daughter in law had to say to three youngest Nana’s on her own …go play with her! I came home wondering why I went for so long and if it was actually worth it. I FaceTime my son every week but rarely see my grand kids and I have tried every which way to see them . My son is very difficult to talk to and it’s superficial and hard .

I’m inclined to think that phones are used as displacement activity by people with empty heads.

I can do anything I want on my phone, but don't because, for me, the minute screen giving postage stamps bits of information or text, do my head in, I cannot think of a more apposite phrase.

For me, if i cannot see stuff in context on a decent sized screen, then I can do without.

I think some older people need to educate themselves in the use of phones.
In most cases that you are all relating to, it’s an addiction.

How many times on GN have we read my addiction to gn
It’s not an addiction to GN, it’s an addiction to scrolling.

If some posters were honest with themselves they would recognise it.
thegloss.ie/stop-scrolling-heres-how-to-curb-your-phone-addiction/

OK, back to the OP and not GCs.

Back to OP and nannafunny, she was invited to niece and husband... to their home, and then totally ignored as they spent their time on their device rather than talk to her. This is beyond rude, unequivocally. And I would have made excuses and left.

Fleurpepper

There is no dogmatic insistence, at all. GCs will use their phones when we are there for several days, and do disappear into their room. Totally normal. But if we are watching a film together, or at the table, they don't. Not because we tell them, because they have good manners and enjoy our company. Quite simple.

I wasn't talking about you when I said that, though .

It was a generalised comment on the thread, and the people who have been quite unequivocal that using phones is bad manners, that they won't tolerate it, and would go home or leave the room if people used a device in their presence.

Our young relatives like to visit us. They may well spend time on their devices during the visit. 1 DGS comes round, asks how we are and if there’s anything we need doing, then either gets in with the job or plays a game or two. When I call “lunch time” he puts his phone in his pocket and comes to the table. DGS2 uses lunch time to put his phone or device on charge.
It was never a dogmatic insistence, but
I’m not sure what I’d do if either of them were rude enough to use their devices throughout meal times.

There is no dogmatic insistence, at all. GCs will use their phones when we are there for several days, and do disappear into their room. Totally normal. But if we are watching a film together, or at the table, they don't. Not because we tell them, because they have good manners and enjoy our company. Quite simple.

M0nica

^ If we want our young relatives to visit us willingly, surely we have to bend towards the way they do things at least a bit.^

Surely this ishow family relationships work, at any level, adjustments and give and take that take place without people even thinking about it.

I can remember my DD, as a child, choosing to always dress nicely when we visited one set of grandparents because she knew it mattered to them.

This isn't any different, whwere there is a happy relationship grandchildren and grndparents will adjust to each others habits and preferences.

Agreed. Dogmatic insistence on one way of doing things is not a recipe for intergenerational harmony.

Granny23

This lack of 'table manners' is nothing new. When I was first invited to Sunday Lunch at my soon to be In-laws home I was amazed to find that we were all seated on one side of the dining table in the living room, so that we could all watch the TV during the meal.

I went to a boyfriend's house and his dad put the television on the dining table so they could watch the rugby 😳

(I didn't continue the relationship).

^ If we want our young relatives to visit us willingly, surely we have to bend towards the way they do things at least a bit.^

Surely this ishow family relationships work, at any level, adjustments and give and take that take place without people even thinking about it.

I can remember my DD, as a child, choosing to always dress nicely when we visited one set of grandparents because she knew it mattered to them.

This isn't any different, whwere there is a happy relationship grandchildren and grndparents will adjust to each others habits and preferences.

I can't be sure what I would say in such circumstances but I'd like to think I'd say, "I wonder what you find so interesting and would you like to tell me about ti?" Or I might ask them to recommend a good smartphone for me. At least something to make them aware that I'm feeling left out and that they should communicate with me.

I agree, LR and would also turn off the tv and basically behave as programmed 😀. Old habits die hard.

What I try not to do is to ‘insist’, blackmail or otherwise pressure other people (as adults) to do what I do, just because I believe it is the only way. If we want our young relatives to visit us willingly, surely we have to bend towards the way they do things at least a bit.

Regarding younger people - my grandmother thought that wearing jeans on Sundays was disrespectful if not sacreligious. So we weren’t allowed to wear them in case she visited or because we had been summoned to her house for tea. At 14 or so, my sister and I really resented it - the weekends were the only time we could wear ‘civvies’ and having that cut because of someone’s outdated (to us) views felt very unfair. Children (rightly) can’t use phones at school, so why stop them doing their thing in our company?

I’m arguing against myself in some ways, as I am not a fan of people being attached to their devices either, but I just don’t think we can simultaneously hope for young people to want to visit us and also behave in ways that are out of synch with the ways of their friends.

LRavenscroft

Doodledog

Tomayto, tomato. If everyone is watching the same thing when food is ready, why leave it? Mr Dog and I often eat in front of PMQs on Wednesday afternoons, shouting at the telly. I see nothing ill-mannered about that. If either or both of the children are there, they join in. Every meal is not a dinner party, with rules and expectations, surely?

Could it possibly be that the one person who insists that phones are confiscated, the TV off and things are set up the way they like it are the ones being unreasonable?

Yes, but that is in the privacy of your own home, doing your own thing? When a third party is introduced into the equation you introduce a new dynamic. If someone visits you on the off chance that you are home, then they are invading your privacy without previous arrangement. If, however, you invite them to lunch and then continue to watch and shout at the telly, that is ill mannered. It is all about social etiquette.

We are all different, ans as said before, it's a good thing.

I love people to pop in un-announced. Sometimes the house has just been cleaned and I have fresh flowers from the garden, and sometimes the house is a mess... And that is OK- we will have a cuppa and a chat, sometimess/he/they will stay for impromptu lunch, or we will go out for lunch somewhere nearby, sometimes not. And once, it was really not convenient, and I said so and it was perfectly understood.

And yes, I would switch off TV, and quickly answer phone and say, get back to you later.

The best friends are thos who feel they can do just that- pop in for a chat- without putting it in the diary weeks before.I value friends much more than having TV programme interrupted- and these days, you can always go back to it on catch up.

My parents also turned off the TV even when it was just a neighbour casually popping in to ask a favor or borrow something. That always irritated me (when I was watching something) because they were not "proper" visitors - just a casual caller which is not the same thing at all. If you invite someone into your home then you are saying that you are willing to share some time with them. So leaving the TV on is a good way to signal that someone was not "invited" and you want them to leave asap.

The same can be said of phones. If someone is constatly flicking through their phone they are signalling that they do not really value your company so you may as well get up and go. Been there, done it, got the t-shirt.

I suspect my DDIL wished she hadn't looked at her phone on Mother's Day as she had to spend the afternoon dealing with a brokenhearted son, girlfriend dumped him after 3 years, and then her sister who had to leave the latest boyfriend for various reasons and needed a long chat to her sister.
Mollygo I expect the phones don't help but of course lockdown has also caused a problem with speech and particularly reading it seems.

On an aside, there has been an increase in the number of children who come to our school (I can’t speak for others) with delayed speech, limited vocabulary or speaking skills. I wonder if there’s any relationship between that and the parents engrossed in their phones and devices.

It is all about social etiquette.
As I keep saying, I agree, and was brought up to turn off the tv, to put down my book and pay attention to visitors. I still do, and find it rude when someone is actively engaging with social media in company. My point though, is that etiquette changes over time. As older people we have a choice. We can insist that when youngsters are with us they conform to our rules and beliefs about what’s right, whether they agree or not, or we can accept that things change and fit in with them. Not just on this, but on life in general. So often on here I feel sad that posters are really hurt by things like not getting cards, or the decline of the thank you letter, when these things are not about a lack of love or respect for them. How much actual love or respect is involved in keeping multi packs of cards in and posting one once a year? They are expensive bits of cardboard that we have been conditioned to see as signifiers of our worth to other people. It’s such a shame that nice people are so hurt when all that’s happening is that fashion has changed and the practice of sending cards is dying out.

This is similar in my view. People are getting hurt, indignant- even leaving the room - because others are moving with the times and they refuse to accept it. It’s unlikely that a whole generation is being mannerless (if they are, it’s our fault), so much as that whatever we might think, they don’t see it as rude. One of the positive traits employers find in GenZ (and millennials I think) is that they constantly multitask. Channeled in the right way, this can make them far more productive than we Boomers, who are more focused and deliberate in what we do. We stay on task where they flit about doing three things at once, but in today’s world that is an advantage. Sometimes we need to look at things from a different perspective, not dig in our heels and insist that everything stays the same.

On a slight change of subject- something I find infuriating (and IME it is not young people who are the worst offenders) is when someone gets out their phone and Googles to fact check what you are saying:
‘I remember seeing that film in 1978 at the Odeon’.
‘Actually it came out in 1979, I think you’ll find’ 😡. What does it matter? Correcting people over trivialities just because you can is not clever, and I find that habit extremely rude. It seems to be widespread in my friendship groups but far less so in younger people.

Thank goodness I don’t experience this with my DCs and DGCs, however for years my sister and BIL and their DCs would sit in the same room on their laptops and email each other rather than talk! I honestly couldn’t believe it but it’s true. The last time I saw them pre Covid they barely said a word to DH and I. We’re now completely estranged for other reasons but I cannot understand or tolerate this obsession with being glued to a phone!
I see people dog walking doing it too, or with earphones/ear buds and I cannot understand why they don’t enjoy the beautiful countryside around here instead!

A Lost Art?
I love to meet with friends, and to sit with them and chat,
A rewarding way to pass the time, discussing this and that,
As we set the world to rights that talk’s a favourite occupation,
A chance to join with others in the art of conversation.
But as I look around these days I worry when I see,
So many bad examples of how things have come to be.
Two girls there on the Metro left me feeling quite perplexed,
As they sat next to each other to communicate by text.
Heads pointed down and fingers flying, total introspection,
As they “talked” there to each other, with no meaningful connection.
I’ve seen a family in a pub, all gathered for a meal,
It’s no exaggeration, and to me it seemed surreal,
Both parents and the children, with i-pads in their hand,
They may as well have been apart, all in some distant land,
In separate worlds they surf the net, oblivious of each other,
Just how does that fit in with being a Father or a Mother?
So is it any wonder that when youngsters do speak out,
The noises that they make leave no room for any doubt,
That they’ve lost the use of English, with a sentence all expressed,
With grammar and vocabulary suitably addressed.
No “I was like” and “she was like”, such tortured, mangled speech,
With constant interjections as they struggle there to reach,
For the words to tell their story, in sentences that vary,
With such easy, practiced reference to a wide vocabulary.
I see recorded interviews with people in the street,
A “vox pop” scene from years gone by, with sentences complete,
So very different from today, I sometimes wonder whether,
The person being interviewed can string three words together,
Without “you know” or “kind of like”, or using that ”I mean”,
To fill those yawning gaps where those lost words would once have been.
And even social gatherings work against good conversation,
With some awful, blaring disco blocking all communication,
As you sit and strain to lip-read what your neighbours try to say,
But the decibels still triumph, and those words just fade away,
So you smile and nod, and then give up, another chance is lost,
To communicate with others, and it all comes at a cost.
At heart we’re social animals, and we have the gift of speech,
To serve our complex lifestyles, to help us all to reach,
A proper understanding of what brings us all together,
To cement a lasting friendship takes some concentrated blether.
So I’m making no apologies, and I may be an old fart,
But I mourn for conversation, fast becoming a lost art…

But still wouldn't have the tele on if I had visitors