Holidays with another couple - ongoing

Never been on holiday with couples but went on holiday with someone I worked with. Then two of her friends muscled in. We went to Paris and they wanted to do touristy things. Ive been to Paris many times so I left them to it and went to the fleamarket, museums and galleries. One of them carelessly left her bag with all her money, travel cheques and passport in a cafe and it was MY fault because I abandoned them in Paris and they did not speak French. To make matters worse I would not go with them to the British Embassy to get a replacement passport.

"We dont speak French."
"I have some good news for you. They speak English in the British Emabassy so you dont need me."

We sat on separate seats on the journey back.

PinkCosmos so many things have been said, but this last post above seems to say it all for me,

"After discussing it for a long time, we want to go on holiday just by ourselves".

You need to tell the this as soon as possible. Its perfectly natural to just want time together given you both work!

Inishowen - I do feel like we can't book anything just for ourselves anymore. I was casting my mind back and we have been on around 10 holidays over the last three years, seven of them with them. These have been 'proper' holidays and short breaks. It has got progressively worse as time has gone on, with us spending every holiday with them last year. Meanwhile, they have been away on their own more than we have. They book last minute holidays. They do invite us but, and maybe I am being cynical here, they are aware that we can't book time off work at short notice.

Tbh, it sounds like my biggest nightmare! DH and I have never been on holiday with another couple and I don’t think we ever would! We enjoy our own company and planning our day without having to consider others. Probably sounds a bit anti social but we work hard and value our time together. I think your friend sounds very childish and seems to be all about her!

Some years ago, DH and I were asked by a couple at our golf club if we would like to go away with them for some sun and golf.
Usually, we prefer to holiday just us 2, but we agreed as we got on well with them and enjoying playing golf together.

The trouble was that they thought we would be open to playing more than golf together, and suggested when we were out there that that we could enjoy some "fun" together. Neither DH or I have done that sort of thing and I am sure we did not give them a hint that we were open to it.

Awkward to say the least. But it seems the resort was known for swinging and they soon found other couples to "engage" with.

Meanwhile DH and I chastely played golf and kept to our own mundane but safe company.

We got into a similar situation and went on many short breaks with another couple. Neither couple felt they could book something just for themselves. We also had meals out at least once a week. The other couple started saying no to meals out, saying they were worried about putting on weight.
Gradually they cooled until it was just myself and the woman who saw each other. Now that's stopped too. I regret ever going on holiday in the first place as its hard to stop.

I think both your husband and yourself are people pleasers, which sadly does not work in my opinion unless you are happy just to follow the lead. You are blaming your husband but you could have told them yourself as it sounds like it is you that feels anxious when going away with them and not your husband. Put your big girls pants on in future and be honest with people about your own wishes, it makes life much easier in the end. Once you learn to assert yourself it becomes easier each time. Good luck.

Crazygranny - I have not contacted her again since my last text almost a week ago. I don't want to fall out with this couple but I said this to her and apologised so I feel like the ball is in her court now. I have to confess that I have been really stressed out about this situation as I have never fallen out with anyone in my life.

You can't make things right because the problem is based on another person's unreasonableness. You've told them. Now leave it alone.

PinkCosmos

Thank you all for your replies and advice.

I think her issue is that we had discussed going on holiday but had not made any proper plans. None of us are retired. They have to book time off work quite far in advance. The dates I had booked did not coincide with their dates. I didn't know what dates they had booked off. The holiday I booked was the best dates for the cheapest option.

It makes it worse as I had talked to my DH to try to come up with a way to tell them that we don't want to go away them, without them getting too upset. However, when we met up my DH just went along with their plans and I ended up barely saying anything. I feel like I am the odd one out.

I do think that she is a bit of a bully - though a subtle one. Her DH is totally under the thumb. They do everything together. Over the years they have always seemed to prefer to go away with other people rather than just the two of them. As one poster said, that says more about their relationship than anything else.

I did say to her that I was sorry for not telling her before we booked and that we would be happy to go away with them another time.

When we do go away I usually go along with whatever everyone else wants to do. One time she wanted to do something and I said I would prefer not to, as did both DH's. She was clearly not happy and sulked for quite a while.

She sounds an absolute delight 😩. I think you’ve dodged a bullet here .
Seriously though if you value the friendship and wish to
go away with them again ,then now is the time to set some ground rules . If you like doing different things , Suggest to do stuff separately for a few days during the day and meet up in the evening . Or suggest a resort/ town where there are things to do other than the beach , pool . We’ve done this with friends who like exploring. Holidays with others are about compromises some of the time . You said you’re not a beach /pool person . I found the heat on holiday affected me during the menopause . Just a thought .

Yammy isn’t that desperately sad, when couples barely even talk with each other and crave the company of even complete strangers.

Thanks PinkCosmos.

Well there's a bit of a contradiction re DH, "I think my DH enjoys going with them up to a point. He is generally the one who moans about them when we are actually away." (!?)

I'd use an easy get out after having a word with DH to be "onside". Something socially acceptable.

You don't seem old enough to use my get out phrase, "now that I'm a bit older, I find....blah blah" but something similar.

Make it clear this is an absolute including the muddied water one,

but (as long as its true) "be good to meet up for a meal"ie offer something.

Madgran - thanks. Your suggested phrases are really useful. I am really wary of what to say because once you have said something you can't unsay it. Less is more I think.

MercuryQueen - we don't subsidise their holiday. They are not short of money. However, our bar bill always seems to be more than theirs even though we buy rounds generally.

Bigloius - I agree. However, they want to spend all of their time with us when we are on holiday. We have been away once with another couple and they almost always did their own thing during the day. We would just meet up in the evening. I think that this current couple see the whole point of going away with us is so that they can spend all of the time with us.

Bluebell - they did used to go away with another couple but that stopped. I don't know why. They want to go away with us all the time now.

LadyLeft - I agree that my DH needs to be more supportive of me. He is also non confrontational and just says what he thinks people want to hear.

LRavenscroft - yes, this has happened to us whilst we have been with them. If we suggested doing our own thing they would agree but in a way that made us feel guilty for even suggesting it.

Wyllow - I have muddied the waters now. I think my DH enjoys going with them up to a point. He is generally the one who moans about them when we are actually away. They have had two holidays on their own this year which were booked at the last minute. My DH and I can't book time off at such short notice and they do know that. Prior to this event I was wondering if this was their subtle way of indicating that they didn't want to go away with us, unless it suited them. Apologies for using the word 'mental' it was no intended to offend.

Stop worrying,if you enjoy each other's company stick to what you have done and quietly forget "Perhaps another time".
They have probably got the message anyway.
After a number of hols with friends when we were younger and had young children, we decided it was not for us. The fuss at mealtimes was enough to put me off for life.
Every family has its own pattern and trying to fit in with someone else is difficult, in all negotiations.
We do holidays with DDs and agree at times to go our separate way during the day and meet up in the evenings.
I did know two couples who went on holiday with the sole purpose of latching on to another couple and then trying to holiday with complete strangers. They very rarely talked to each other.at home and were desperate for company. Might your "Friends" be like this?

You've muddied the water a bit by saying you would go another time with them, unless that's what you genuinely feel. I'm not absolutely clear what your DH feels. Does he enjoy going with them, or was just being polite?

Either way, if he is prepared to accept its really important for you for it to be just the two of you, it's time to say something clear. "we've decided from now on we want to holiday alone", sorry to have upset you, but we've discussed this at length". If they have done it all by texts, I don't see why you should do the same btw.

However, if you do enjoy meeting them just for meals etc then you can say that as part of the gentle laying down of boundaries and even arrange one.

Other people have pointed the obvious out, they have gone on holidays without you both, but I think to mention that is just getting attritional. Yes you do risk losing a friendship, but truly it has just made you dread what is an expensive holiday!

(Btw, I'm a little wary of using the word "mental" casually, for real mental heath problems are serious and its a bit offensive to fling that label around when it's a matter of someone behaving in an aggressive or bullying manner.)

You have already made it right, well done , have a fantastic time , and pile on a few more pairs of knickers , best wishes

I had a relative and her husband who used to go on holiday with different couples down to Spain. We spent some time with them once and all their conversation was about how these other couples didn't want to do what they wanted to do. Not a mention of falling in with other peoples wishes. Her husband even had a row in a pub with the other husband when one of the offending couples did not wish to sit with them when there by chance. Horrid aggressive people.

I am afraid this woman sounds appalling and you definitely need to start working on some big girl’s knickers! Your OH needs to be more supportive. If the friendship founders would it be such a bad thing?

My friend and her husband used to holiday every year with a couple for years then something went a bit pear shaped and they decided to go away on their own The friendship completely finished because there was so much bad feeling and bad comments from the friends They ve never spoken since

I m afraid although I m a very social person I couldn’t go away with anyone other than family I don’t even like shopping with a companion as I feel I m holding them back if I want to look at things or go to shops they re not interested in and I don’t want to have to look at things I m not interested in

I think you have to stop being mushy about it and in a very kind way just say without any waffling excuses that you felt like a solo holiday this year full stop

We had a holiday with a couple with whom we had never had a cross word. Never again. It took us a long long time to get our relationship back on track.

And to add, even if she NEVER vacationed solo with her spouse, it still wouldn’t obligate you to vacation with them. Her permission isn’t required.

I hope you have a wonderful time

Sounds to me as though she was counting on you subsidizing her vacation (guessing you share a rental and other expenses?) and without you along, she can’t afford it.

None of which is your problem. It’s perfectly fine for her to vacation solo with her spouse, why shouldn’t you be able to do the same?

I’d never vacation with them again, honestly. Vacations are too expensive, time off too precious, to not be fully enjoying it

When you go on holiday with other people you have to compromise and do what they want to do at least part of the time. And therein lies the problem. I can well imagine that a couple would also want time and space to do their own thing, especially if all the compromising was on their side.

It seems acceptable for them to have holidays away from you but not vice-versa. Since when have they been the keepers of your time?

If you are going to fall out seriously over this then I echo the sentiments of the posters who say that the friendship has run its course.

Any advice on what I should say if we meet face to face. I am feeling really anxious about this

1. Establish with your husband exactly what you both actually want, as individuals and as a couple
- do you REALLY want to go away with them again?
-does he REALLY want to go away with them again
- if either of you says yes to that question then you two have to work out a compromise that works for BOTH of you
eg shorter holiday with them and always another holiday with just the 2 of you
eg only one of you goes with them, the other has a separate break
- if you both answer No then agree a way forward together AND agree that NEITHER of you will stray from that agreement when telling them; and agree how you will support each other NOT to stray from what you have agreed!

2. Re what to say to them when you meet face to face (although as others have advised I would phone them and address it rather than wait for them to discuss it sensibly which will probably never happen!). Ofcourse some of what you say depends on what you as a couple have agreed but some useful phrases etc might be:

"I understand you are angry with me. I know we discussed a possible holiday but we did not agree dates or take it any further. I saw this holiday and we both fancied it as a couple so I booked. I didn't mention it as we had nothing arranged with you anyway"

"We like to have some holidays as just a couple. If we are going to holiday all together again, that will have to fit around our own holidays"

" No I dont want do that" ..."Yes you have explained what you want to arrange. No I don't want to do that!" ..."I have already said I dont want to do that!" ..." I hope you enjoy that. I/We will do something else. I/We dont want to do that" ...."Yes I understand you think it will be fun/interesting...but I/We dont want to do that!"

"You have explained why you are angry. I have explained my perspective. There is no point discussing it further. We are going away as a couple. Have you sorted your plans yet?" ..."Yes, I know you expected to go with us but as that isn't happening I assume you are arranging something else!"

What you DON'T do is justify, explain, get dragged in to endless apologies because of endless ranting accusations etc. If she wont shut up I would say "Well obviously you are still so annoyed do I think it best of we leave now!"

Good luck. And make sure you and your husband are in acvird before any further conversations take place

We had friends that were good for a weekend away, we only went for a week once, they were bickering all week, deliberately provoking each other. Family too we are happy to stay for 2 or 3 days but we value our freedom so always find a reason not to stay longer.

You need to know a couple really well to go on holiday with them.