Trans Teacher

I haven’t misunderstood what privilege is at all.

Equality is doing away with any type of discrimination that prevents others having equal access to any opportunities in life.

Grandiose statement. A bit vs and very unequally applied by you.

Tell that to the women who are denied medals they would have if they weren’t discriminated against by having to compete with males.
Are you saying that women’s right to win fairly is a privilege they should surrender to males in the name of your idea of equality?

That’s not equality, unless you’re a male or someone who is happy to discriminate in favour of males.

This thread is starting to read like threads of old where people vied to prove feminist credentials by posting unsubstantiated claims to all the virtuous things they had done as though that gave them carte blanche to tell women to bunk up and let men into their spaces.

I’m sure we all believe in equality, but as it stands women don’t have it on the whole. Men are in charge of most areas of society, and many women have fought back by forming groups and societies of our own, and basically doing things in our own way. Some men have felt threatened by that and infiltrated everything from the WI to lesbian dating events, screaming at women who object on the (spurious) grounds that objection makes us transphobic. That is not about equality- it is preventing women from resisting the inequality we have fought against for years.

VioletSky

Equality

It is not jealousy as some seem to think. It is not looking at those who have more and hating them for it

Equality is equal opportunity

Equality is doing away with any type of discrimination that prevents others having equal access to any opportunities in life

Yes, equality is the eradication of privilege

You misunderstand Privilege to mean those who have more than you when privilege is those who have better opportunities in life than you

And you should understand what privilege is and be angry about it... if you don't you are unknowlingly part of the problem

VS

Who are you addressing with your comment?

You frequently post what appear to be your random thoughts - or in this case - a 'mini' lecture on the subject of 'equality'. However, more than one poster has mentioned the topic, so?

Can you not just put the person's name - the person you are replying to at the top of your post, you don't even need to highlight it?

Or maybe you're addressing all of us? TBH, I think we have a pretty fair understanding of what privilege means in terms of opportunities. I've read posts unconnected with this one where it has been discussed at length, particularly in relation to education; those born into already established impoverishment, etc; those whose life-chances are limited by disability or poor mental health, and the lack of help, support etc, which prevents them from reaching their potential ability to thrive, the list is endless. Plus - posters have also noted their own relative privilege in relation to others... so I don't think we need a lecture from you on the matter.

I wonder how much the op was paid to start that post off ? Nothing, I hope. Interesting that they have disappeared.

Google it, then you can decide for yourself what is "dross"

If you read my post you will see that I have done exactly that. I don’t need to develop concepts of my own - why would I do that? I am not pushing an agenda but reacting to what I see from the trans lobby.

Dickens

Glorianny

I do find it a constant source of amusement that when things are posted about my posts they tend to be minute analysis of a few words taken from my posts. Which only leads me to think that it is difficult to counter the concept of the entire post, so best try to pick holes in small bits of it.

Equality demands of us that we recognise and surrender privilege when it is there. Only if we do so can we possibly hope to achieve true equality. Women have the privilege of choosing to wear trousers or skirts, it is time we surrendered that and allowed men the same.
No one is free until everyone is free.

Forgetting the teacher for the moment - there really hasn't been any movement to prevent men from wearing skirts. I don't think women generally would demand that they didn't. The biggest obstacle to men wearing skirts is more likely to come from the ridicule by other men... and possibly some women.

Apart from a few exceptions (and those in the world of fashion and entertainment) men just don't appear to want to wear them - and that's most likely because trousers are more practical in every day life... which is why so many women wear them.

I doubt very much that trouser-wearing women are preventing men from wearing skirts - I believe it's more that men simply don't generally want to wear them. If they did - they would because in spite of women's emancipation, men are still overall in control.

As for the teacher - as you pointed out, we don't know his reasons... something you didn't actually need to tell me Glorianny because it's a point I've already made more than once in my posts.

The OP referred to a "Trans-Teacher" who we are informed identifies as a Mr. The heading - not unexpectedly - generated quite a response, inevitably leading to discussions on transgender matters - which include the issue of safe spaces for women (you queried why this has become part of the thread debate). Those of us who are wary of the proliferation of children seemingly having a gender identity crisis are questioning the teacher's motives.

But as the OP hasn't come back to offer further information - or her opinion on what's being discussed, we've ended up arguing in general terms - prompted by the apparent decision of a male defying convention and wearing a skirt in the classroom.

Dickens of course most women aren't stopping men wearing skirts, but there is a very vocal lot on GN who would stop a teacher.
Men don't wear skirts I think for the same reason a lot of women don't- trousers are more comfortable . So the argument now seems to be
Men can wear skirts, as long as they are not teachers, don't call themselves "Mr" or identify as trans. Surely that is discriminatory on so many levels!!

Equality

It is not jealousy as some seem to think. It is not looking at those who have more and hating them for it

Equality is equal opportunity

Equality is doing away with any type of discrimination that prevents others having equal access to any opportunities in life

Yes, equality is the eradication of privilege

You misunderstand Privilege to mean those who have more than you when privilege is those who have better opportunities in life than you

And you should understand what privilege is and be angry about it... if you don't you are unknowlingly part of the problem

Mollygo

Sorry, pressed post too quickly.
Meant to add
It just appears that all your posts support males being the beneficiaries of female respect and women who should be surrendering privilege.

*That’s not equality*

Mollygo I do think Glorianny genuinely believes in equality, but does not interpret it in the same way as those of us who are arguing against her.

Intersectional Feminism basically challenges the idea of "common oppression" and focuses on marginalised groups... in simplistic terms (mine).

I do understand what you are saying because it does seem like women are being asked to "be kind" and "move over" to (yet again) accommodate men. And when a group of those men are insisting that their penis is a female sex organ - their "lady dick" (which some have threatened to use as a weapon to rape TERFS "to death") - it rankles, to put it mildly.

But that's just one aspect of a complicated dynamic between us who are labelled 'trans-exclusionary' and the 'intersectional feminists'. And, of course, it also involves race and colour - it's not all about 'sex'.

Sorry, pressed post too quickly.
Meant to add
It just appears that all your posts support males being the beneficiaries of female respect and women who should be surrendering privilege.

That’s not equality

Oh dear Glorianny you really don't have much idea about equality do you?

But I’m happy to have you explain what your version of equality as defined here,

^Equality demands of us that we recognise and surrender privilege when it is there.^

I suspect you will choose not to clarify, in the same way as your respect post continues to go unclarified.

It just appears that all your posts support males being the beneficiaries of female respect and women who should be surrendering privilege.

Glorianny

I do find it a constant source of amusement that when things are posted about my posts they tend to be minute analysis of a few words taken from my posts. Which only leads me to think that it is difficult to counter the concept of the entire post, so best try to pick holes in small bits of it.

Equality demands of us that we recognise and surrender privilege when it is there. Only if we do so can we possibly hope to achieve true equality. Women have the privilege of choosing to wear trousers or skirts, it is time we surrendered that and allowed men the same.
No one is free until everyone is free.

Forgetting the teacher for the moment - there really hasn't been any movement to prevent men from wearing skirts. I don't think women generally would demand that they didn't. The biggest obstacle to men wearing skirts is more likely to come from the ridicule by other men... and possibly some women.

Apart from a few exceptions (and those in the world of fashion and entertainment) men just don't appear to want to wear them - and that's most likely because trousers are more practical in every day life... which is why so many women wear them.

I doubt very much that trouser-wearing women are preventing men from wearing skirts - I believe it's more that men simply don't generally want to wear them. If they did - they would because in spite of women's emancipation, men are still overall in control.

As for the teacher - as you pointed out, we don't know his reasons... something you didn't actually need to tell me Glorianny because it's a point I've already made more than once in my posts.

The OP referred to a "Trans-Teacher" who we are informed identifies as a Mr. The heading - not unexpectedly - generated quite a response, inevitably leading to discussions on transgender matters - which include the issue of safe spaces for women (you queried why this has become part of the thread debate). Those of us who are wary of the proliferation of children seemingly having a gender identity crisis are questioning the teacher's motives.

But as the OP hasn't come back to offer further information - or her opinion on what's being discussed, we've ended up arguing in general terms - prompted by the apparent decision of a male defying convention and wearing a skirt in the classroom.

As we can clearly see

I'm still waiting to see, for example, all those male sports men recognising and surrendering the privilege of their higher pay. Good point Mollygo, another example of everyone being equal but some are more equal than others.

I don't think a lot of people ever were fighting for equality... they were only fighting for themselves and a place at the top

Mollygo

^Equality demands of us that we recognise and surrender privilege when it is there.^

In your view then, if a man wants to do whatever he wants, let him

I’m still waiting to see, for example, all those male sports men recognising and surrendering the privilege of their higher pay.

Glorianny, I’m still waiting to hear to whom the women you mentioned are not showing respect in order to receive it.

Oh dear Mollygo you really don't have much idea about equality do you?

Of course some people remain privileged
Of course some people will not surrender their privilege.
Perhaps because they have no real belief in equality?

Mollygo you really do make me smile sometimes

I needed cheering up

Equality demands of us that we recognise and surrender privilege when it is there.

In your view then, if a man wants to do whatever he wants, let him

I’m still waiting to see, for example, all those male sports men recognising and surrendering the privilege of their higher pay.

Glorianny, I’m still waiting to hear to whom the women you mentioned are not showing respect in order to receive it.

I do find it a constant source of amusement that when things are posted about my posts they tend to be minute analysis of a few words taken from my posts. Which only leads me to think that it is difficult to counter the concept of the entire post, so best try to pick holes in small bits of it.

Equality demands of us that we recognise and surrender privilege when it is there. Only if we do so can we possibly hope to achieve true equality. Women have the privilege of choosing to wear trousers or skirts, it is time we surrendered that and allowed men the same.
No one is free until everyone is free.

Doodledog

^How did women's spaces get into this it's a discussion about a teacher wearing a skirt.^
It seems very odd to me that you would have such set views on trans women and not be aware of what being in the wrong gender means. Either you refuse to acknowledge the real life experiences of people or you have drawn a conclusion without doing adequate research.
Why you expect someone on GN to explain it to you I have no idea. There's. plenty of information from recognised psychology bodies on line. Just Google it.

Ah, the FOFO demands beloved of those with no answers

I have no ‘set views’ about transwomen- I understand that they believe that they are women, which would require a change of sex. As I said upthread, I understand that. There are two sexes, and some people believe they are in the wrong one.

You used the phrase upthread in the context of a boy who might wonder whether wanting to wear a skirt meant that he was ‘in the wrong gender’. I don’t understand that, as gender is just a series of social expectations. How can someone ’be in the wrong gender’?

I can Google it, and have done, but there is an awful lot of dross out there, based on biologically impossible assumptions about changing sex, and confusion between sex and gender. I have found nothing that explains what being in the wrong gender means, just as I have found nothing about what ‘feeling like a woman’ means, although there is a lot of anecdotal stuff from people saying that they do. Can you direct me to something a bit more useful and evidence based please?

Also, can you clear up the apparent confusion about the power of the skirt? One minute it is just a garment but the next you are saying that it could influence a confused child in matters pertaining to his ‘gender’. I must be missing something but I don’t know how both can apply.

I think perhaps you need to stop cross examining me about what I mean and establish some concepts of your own .
As far as a boy questioning why they are required to dress a certain way and what that has to do with the gender they identify as well, it's been happening for a long time. Many of us have seen boys choosing to wear skirts and wondering about. the difference gender makes. Of course if you question the whole concept then it is a bit difficult to understand why you would find anything wrong in a teacher wearing a skirt.
But once again perhaps you should stop asking people posting on GN to explain matters to you. Google it, then you can decide for yourself what is "dross" There are a number of highly rated organisations posting information on the subject.
However if you are truly interested in finding out more I recommend this piece of research which gives some details and explores the differences in the brain which may be involved
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7415463/

Tut tut VS. I highlighted some people to ensure you would know I didn’t mean specific people. But if you take it to mean just you . . . I can’t stop you. Some people think everything’s about them.

Ok

Despair is quite a strong reaction then

I'd like to see more evidence of that though doodledog

We should be applying our morals and values across the board, not ignoring them for ourselves or those willing to agree with us....otherwise they are meaningless

VioletSky

Good to know doodledog, although, you needn't have added more after that, if you were truly trying... or at least have let me know you were trying to start fresh

Some people eh lol

I’m not trying to do anything. If I agree, I agree. If I don’t, I don’t. It’s not rocket science, and it’s not about who posts what.

I don’t agree with everything that anyone says just because it is they who said it, and that applies to disagreement too.

How did women's spaces get into this it's a discussion about a teacher wearing a skirt.
It seems very odd to me that you would have such set views on trans women and not be aware of what being in the wrong gender means. Either you refuse to acknowledge the real life experiences of people or you have drawn a conclusion without doing adequate research.
Why you expect someone on GN to explain it to you I have no idea. There's. plenty of information from recognised psychology bodies on line. Just Google it.

Ah, the FOFO demands beloved of those with no answers

I have no ‘set views’ about transwomen- I understand that they believe that they are women, which would require a change of sex. As I said upthread, I understand that. There are two sexes, and some people believe they are in the wrong one.

You used the phrase upthread in the context of a boy who might wonder whether wanting to wear a skirt meant that he was ‘in the wrong gender’. I don’t understand that, as gender is just a series of social expectations. How can someone ’be in the wrong gender’?

I can Google it, and have done, but there is an awful lot of dross out there, based on biologically impossible assumptions about changing sex, and confusion between sex and gender. I have found nothing that explains what being in the wrong gender means, just as I have found nothing about what ‘feeling like a woman’ means, although there is a lot of anecdotal stuff from people saying that they do. Can you direct me to something a bit more useful and evidence based please?

Also, can you clear up the apparent confusion about the power of the skirt? One minute it is just a garment but the next you are saying that it could influence a confused child in matters pertaining to his ‘gender’. I must be missing something but I don’t know how both can apply.

Good to know doodledog, although, you needn't have added more after that, if you were truly trying... or at least have let me know you were trying to start fresh

Some people eh lol