Trans Teacher

Cool

Ok

Can this thread be over now

I am not surprised

When my mother was brought into it I literally watched you go from believing me to setting your principles aside doodledog to remain on the majority side here instead of speaking for yourself...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202309/medium-370151-screenshot-20230923-0042242.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202309/medium-558999-screenshot-20230923-0042242.png

Easy to find examples by search

VioletSky

I am telling the truth

And I think you know it really

Are you implying that the rest of us aren't truthful? That's quite some accusation, and I would think against GN principles.

I didn't call VS stupid I said her asking me if I was qualified to peer review Robert Winston was a stupid question. He's a leading world expert and I'm just an ordinary woman. I didn't "get" that VS was "joking". Didn't see any "joke" in it. VS thinking she knows more about the science of sex and fertility than Robert Winston is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Note I think the thought, not the person, is ridiculous.

Dickens some of it is deleted but just for you, I will have a look for some... how many examples do you need?

Doodledog

Syracute

Doodledog

Syracute

Doodledog :
Can you please cite these so called experts that say gender affirming treatment is not helpful ? I have been following a few transgender people on Tik Tok where they talk about their experiences. It is very enlightening. It does very much help them. You like to write a lot but with little fact. There was recently a family in Britain that lost their daughter by suicide because of the over long wait list for gender affirming treatment. Thanks to VioletSky for being a voice of kindness and reason.

Someone with more knowledge than I have can answer that, if that's ok? As I said in my post, I am not best placed to know names etc. I would be reduced to googling, which obviously you could do yourself, so there would be no point .

It is NOT ok to proclaim there is no evidence that gender affirming treatment doesn’t help with no facts. I personally have read many articles about people that have done this . I have watched transgender people talk about what it is like on Tik Tok. It’s clear it does help from what I read and heard from those that have had it done. It’s shameful to come hear with a pretense of knowledge yet NO facts.

What facts do you have? TikTok is not a source of facts. I have seen all manner of things on there - clean your towels with a mix of peroxide, vinegar and baking soda for instance. It would ruin your machine and possibly explode, but it's on there. People talk about experiences that may be true for them, but cannot be extrapolated to include others.

As Galaxy has pointed out, the NHS has advised against affirmation of a child's desire to change sex - something I wold trust over TikTok any day of the week.

I don't pretend knowledge, incidentally - if I don't know something I say so. In this case, I know that experts have advised against affirmation - I just don't know of particular studies, and I have been on too many fool's errands on here, being sent off to 'research' things that then get ignored when I question them, to fall for it again. If I can google for studies, so can you.

I have followed a few Tik Tok people who happen to be transgender. They often discuss what it is like to be transgender. Grow up with gender dysphoria. Actual Q and A about what it is like. In depth conversation. NOT sensationalist articles from tabloid newspapers. These are real people with real stories. For someone who claims no knowledge “ all of a sudden “ you do feel the need to scaremonger about the transgender population. That stirs up hate against the trans population and makes it VERY unsafe for them . Words can be dangerous and I wish some posters would read up on what as a human being it is like to have gender dysphoria. There is enough first person accounts that are worth a read . Before you come with pretentious opinions on the so called dangers of transgender males, maybe read some first hand accounts. It’s extremely unkind to come here and create a maelstrom of fear based on very few accounts. All this because a male teacher wor a skirt to class ? SAD!

The truth is when reasonable arguments are put forth by myself or glorianny, if there is one thing that can be twisted, that's what happens, the rest ignored...

Every single time

It's not me deflecting

It's me saying that all the while these behaviours are seen, your own arguments are damaged

VioletSky

Except I have been part of these threads for a long time

I've seen people here put an ie before the s in trans. I have seen people say "** in a frock", I have seen people deliberately misgender and deadname trans people, I have seen people say that criminals give trans people a bad name or that ordinary trans people should be apologising for the actions of criminals, I have seen people laugh at trans people and say they could never look female...

I have seen it all Dickens and I don't pretend to be perfectly nice and I will defend people who do not deserve bullying and need a little kindness and compassion

So here we are

And btw, I do it with a lot more grace and dignity than the brigade who have called me "stupid" or said that I "must be a terrible TA" they wouldn't want to teach their grandchildren of those who brought my abusive mother into the chat and used that against me.

What one calls passive aggression I call trying to put the hard things as politely as possible

What another calls gaslighting is the simple fact that they have decided what I think and won't hear me say otherwise (can you say projection?)

I am just a person, not perfect but I will tell you the truth. The truth is my respect is largely gone and it was given freely at first... people lost it for themselves

I've seen people here put an ie before the s in trans. I have seen people say "** in a frock", I have seen people deliberately misgender and deadname trans people, I have seen people say that criminals give trans people a bad name or that ordinary trans people should be apologising for the actions of criminals, I have seen people laugh at trans people and say they could never look female...

Yes, I've seen some of that too - all over SM sites.

BUT - those that you are addressing on here, that are responding to your comments - me, Doodledog, Galaxy, and others, have not engaged in those kinds of insults.

I don't mis-gender (not deliberately anyway), I've never referred to transgender people as "trannies" - nor would I - and I'm not aware of any of us laughing at the TG community.

I am direct and to the point. If I use any 'slang' terminology - it is because I'm repeating that used by the TRAs, either to emphasise some of their nasty traits or highlight the absurdity of their claims.

Finally, I'm not on a mission to hate or denigrate any group or demographic. I'm not looking for targets. I don't hate TG people, they are human beings and have rights and need protections like any other group of people. And like any other demographic, I'm sure there are some very nice people among them. People who just want to get on with their lives, again, just like anyone else. My criticism is aimed at those - men, let's be clear - who want to ride roughshod over women and remove their rights and protections. But I think you know all this... that's why your observation about moving on to other targets - implying that we were just looking for someone, or some group, to hate was totally uncalled for.

You've set yourself up as the more "emotionally intelligent" on here and accused us of "hysteria". Flinging wild accusations implying that we're simply hatemongers looking for a target is not a very emotionally mature thing to say.

As for losing your respect - well, that's a two-way street.

BTW, I think some of the observations you make are 'off the wall' But I have never called you "stupid".

Also, I have extended many olive branches and opportunities to improve both the dynamic and discussion and that is also the truth

When my mother was brought into it I literally watched you go from believing me to setting your principles aside doodledog to remain on the majority side here instead of speaking for yourself...

That's the truth too...

Don't wonder at why I say what I say

Nothing to apologise for Doodledog I endorse every word you typed. It just gets so tedious when you have to keep defending yourself against scurrilous accusations that are designed to deflect the conversation.

I am telling the truth

And I think you know it really

Cross posted, Rosie - sorry.

I have never seen '** in a frock' on here. I would report it if I did. I've just realised what you mean by 'ie in front of the s' - why not just say it? Trannies is a word that used to be in common parlance - it is used in Rocky Horror, in Priscilla and other shows very popular with LGB (and T I'm sure) people. it may be out of date now, but it's not as terrible a word as you make out. When people control vocabulary as the trans lobby do - erasing 'women' from the dictionary - words come and go and meanings change. Now 'tranny' is short for transvestites, who are, as I understand it, different from transpeople (who used to be called transexuals until they decided that gender suited their cause better and made that term offensive). People less invested in it all than you seem to be won't necessarily keep up, and that doesn't make them bad people, or guilty of any sort of prejudice or discrimination - they are just using words that used to be ok but are now deemed unacceptable.

I don't think people deliberately misgender or 'deadname' people - it can happen by mistake, I'm sure; but unless you can see into people's minds you can't know they are doing it deliberately.

I don't think you have ever understood what we mean by saying that criminals give transpeople a bad name. Nobody is saying that transpeople are criminals, but that if someone uses the cover of trans to access women's spaces for criminal purposes then women can't know who is really trans and who isn't, so just want no men in there at all, whatever they are wearing. We are saying that transpeople suffer because of those who use self-id to access women's spaces with criminal intent - that is actually supportive of 'genuine' transpeople, not attacking them. I don't know how else to explain it, but I think there is a genuine misunderstanding there, as I can see that it upsets you, and there is no real reason why it should.

I don't think that people should call you stupid or say that you shouldn't be a TA - but to be fair, you do go on about that a lot, and you also talk your experiences with your mother in conversations about other things as a way of shutting others down. You can't expect to use those facts to support you one day and expect others not to remember them and use them in their own support on another.

Re the passive aggression - Dickens explained very succinctly about that upthread. It's not to do with being polite, it is . . . well read her posts. Gaslighting is not about deciding what people think either. I'm sorry, but I don't think you fully understand the terms.

I would argue that I also tell the truth as I see it. That doesn't mean I am always right, but nor does it mean that I am in a 'brigade', or that I have no grace or dignity. I also try to be polite and measured, despite some extreme provocation on here at times. So, you know - there are different viewpoints.

VS I'm not venting "my ire" are you projecting yet again?

Rosie maybe find someone who actually doesn't care about those things to vent your ire at instead of creating scapegoats unfairly

The purity spiral is alive and well! So I may as well join in.
I care about children, all children, and want them to grow in safe environments, and not be subjected to adult fads. I care about women and their safety, dignity and privacy, and respect that different women, adult human females, have different requirements and some have religious or cultural obligations. I care about lesbians and gay men and wish they weren't being pressured into accepting the opposite sex into their dating pool by homophobes. I care about people with genuine body dysphoria and want them to be helped in the best way for each individual. I am respectful of those deserving respect and have never been banned from any social media site so I can't be doing too much wrong. Those that don't respect me don't get my respect since they've demonstrated exactly who they are.

Except I have been part of these threads for a long time

I've seen people here put an ie before the s in trans. I have seen people say "** in a frock", I have seen people deliberately misgender and deadname trans people, I have seen people say that criminals give trans people a bad name or that ordinary trans people should be apologising for the actions of criminals, I have seen people laugh at trans people and say they could never look female...

I have seen it all Dickens and I don't pretend to be perfectly nice and I will defend people who do not deserve bullying and need a little kindness and compassion

So here we are

And btw, I do it with a lot more grace and dignity than the brigade who have called me "stupid" or said that I "must be a terrible TA" they wouldn't want to teach their grandchildren of those who brought my abusive mother into the chat and used that against me.

What one calls passive aggression I call trying to put the hard things as politely as possible

What another calls gaslighting is the simple fact that they have decided what I think and won't hear me say otherwise (can you say projection?)

I am just a person, not perfect but I will tell you the truth. The truth is my respect is largely gone and it was given freely at first... people lost it for themselves

VioletSky

Mollygo

I do not police toilets, not my job, and the people who apparently think it is their job haven't got an inkling who is actually using the toilet and are just abusing butch lesbians and masculine appearing women by mistake.

I just do my business and leave... I have never considered a toilet or a changing room a "safe space" so I always use separate secure cubicles and take responsibility for my own self

VS
I just do my business and leave... I have never considered a toilet or a changing room a "safe space" so I always use separate secure cubicles and take responsibility for my own self
I really get that you take responsibility for your own self.
Do you feel no responsibility or care about others who may not be able to care for themselves?
The problems faced by some females because of some of your women is trying to get to a separate, secure cubicle without being faced by a man illegally in the toilets.
The TW that you and others frequently mention as being unnoticeable are in as much difficulty as females. A difficulty caused by TW who are obviously male and there to intimidate, and those who don’t immediately appear male but stand around in female spaces taking selfies and posting them under the heading you can’t stop me.
Being a TikTok fan you probably see more of that than I do. They certainly publicise themselves there and on X.

VioletSky

I want safe transition for those with genuine gender dysphoria. I want scientific methods to diagnose it. I want an end to gender norms and true equality. Then I want people to leave trans people the hell alone, preferably without starting a hate campaign against another demographic

Night

...Then I want people to leave trans people the hell alone

Trans "people" are not the issue VS and you know it.

TW who insist that we accept they are women even if fully anatomically male are the problem... particularly when they want to invade our changing rooms, toilets and other single-sex spaces.

When they leave us the hell alone, we'll return the compliment.

As for your implying that we are simply on a hate campaign...

...without starting a hate campaign against another demographic

- that is pretty shoddy.

The nice VS who wants us all to be respectful of each other and not use insults, eh?

SMDH

Glorianny

Rosie51

Sorry but I find the concept that you can only get treatment for your child if you agree to them becoming a labrat very frightening.

You prefer the old way where there was no record keeping or ongoing monitoring of outcomes? Puberty blockers are not harmless, they have extreme effects on the body. Transgender surgeons in USA have admitted that any child placed on puberty blockers at tanner stage 2 will never have proper sexual function or experience orgasm. What child of 10-11 can understand what they are sacrificing even if they are told, which they mostly weren't.
Don't forget, the chemicals used are identical to the ones used for the chemical castration of sex offenders.

No I'd prefer proper medical supervision with expert psychological advice to ascertain what would do the least harm to the child and provide the best outcome.
Denying a child treatment could result in actions of self harm and even suicide. I would prefer that not to happen.
And if it was a question of someone never achieving orgasm in the future, or of them committing suicide because they hated their body so much I know which I would choose

And lets not forget they are not being completely denied it, if they become part of clinical research they can have it.

Rosie51

^Sorry but I find the concept that you can only get treatment for your child if you agree to them becoming a labrat very frightening.^

You prefer the old way where there was no record keeping or ongoing monitoring of outcomes? Puberty blockers are not harmless, they have extreme effects on the body. Transgender surgeons in USA have admitted that any child placed on puberty blockers at tanner stage 2 will never have proper sexual function or experience orgasm. What child of 10-11 can understand what they are sacrificing even if they are told, which they mostly weren't.
Don't forget, the chemicals used are identical to the ones used for the chemical castration of sex offenders.

No I'd prefer proper medical supervision with expert psychological advice to ascertain what would do the least harm to the child and provide the best outcome.
Denying a child treatment could result in actions of self harm and even suicide. I would prefer that not to happen.
And if it was a question of someone never achieving orgasm in the future, or of them committing suicide because they hated their body so much I know which I would choose

I want safe transition for those with genuine gender dysphoria. I want scientific methods to diagnose it. I want an end to gender norms and true equality. Then I want people to leave trans people the hell alone, preferably without starting a hate campaign against another demographic

Night