To think that London, or anywhere else for that matter, does not belong to any one demographic

Anniebach

Elrel I know the dates, Ramadan was celebrated with lights
in London on Easter

Again, why is that a problem?

A distinction has to be made between the ideological - of course anyone should be free to walk the streets of London, regardless of appearance and however dressed without the fear of harrassment or worse
and
the reality that a situation can turn nasty where emotions are running high.

The police have to effect a peaceful and safe outcome between these two polarities.

The main aim of the police is to protect the public. This man had an agenda and was being deliberately antagonistic by trying to cross the road through the protesters. For his own safety and the safety of others the officer had to intervene. If he hadn't some of the hotheads among the protesters could have caused a major riot. It doesn't take much for some to find an excuse for violence.

Possibly the police officer was somewhat panicked and trying to head off a difficult situation when he issued the threat of arrest to this man. Imagine if say for example a person wearing clothes that that denoted they were Muslim given the same directive because there was an EDL march nearby, that would of course be equally unacceptable because like this case it's an infringement of civil liberties. All religious denominations should be allowed to move about public areas freely. Just lately it does seem there is a selectivity about who can be visible and who can't, who can hold a meeting and who can't depending on the subject matter around various groups' sensibilities. Of course hate speech is never acceptable to whoever it is aimed at. We appear to be entering a new worrying age where certain people are expected to airbrush themselves and their views out of the public domain.

As for the police officer who responded to Jewish woman who complained about Swastika banners being visible on one of the marches, with something along these lines "it's all about the context" What context would that be? shocking!

Wyllow3

Anti-muslim hate crimes have also seen a rise.

"Tell Mama, which monitors and campaigns against anti-Muslim sentiment and abuse in the UK, told PA Media that “levels of anti-Muslim hatred and discrimination are deeply worrying, impacting trust in authorities and their sense of identity and belonging”.

Iman Atta, the organisation’s director, said there had been a significant spike in anti-Muslim hate since the atrocities on 7 October. He added: “The nature of many offline cases sent to our service is often overtly racist – targeting Arab and Palestinian communities with dehumanising slurs, anti-Muslim slurs or in some cases targeting their homes, or when speaking Arabic in public, as well as targeting Muslim communities across all ages and gender.

*“We should never allow such hatred and intolerance to take root in our communities and at this time, please look out for each other, whether Muslim or Jewish. We must stand together against intolerance, hate and racism.”"*

www.theguardian.com/news/2023/dec/29/many-police-forces-in-uk-recorded-rise-in-antisemitic-offences-after-start-of-israel-gaza-war

Interfaith groups are quietly trying to work away to bring people together.

It is true that anti-Muslim hate crimes have seen a rise. However, more anti-Jewish hate crimes are carried out, and they have seen a higher rise.

Compare these data reported by various UK police forces for the month after 7 October 2023. From articles on the Independent and BBC websites.

British Transport Police
- 87 anti-Jewish offences
- 22 anti-Muslim offences

Greater Manchester Police
- 74 anti-Jewish offences
- 33 anti-Muslim offences. (Down compared to the same period in 2022)

West Yorkshire Police
- 53 anti-Jewish offences
- 49 anti-Muslim offences

Merseyside Police
- 22 anti-Jewish offences
- 10 anti-Muslim offences

Thames Valley Police
- 2000% rise in anti-Jewish incidents: 21, up from 1 the year before
- 42% increase in anti-Muslim incidents (no figure given)

Metropolitan Police
- 1353% rise in anti-Semitic attacks between 1 and 18 October 2023.
- 140% rise in Islamophobic offences
No figures given.

This is in spite of there being 13 times more Muslims than Jews in England and Wales, according to the 2021 census. Muslims made up 6.5% of the population in 2021 whereas Jews made up 0.5% of it.

There are far fewer Jews than Muslims, but more anti-Jewish offences than anti-Muslim offences. So a Jewish person has a higher chance of being attacked than a Muslim person.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/antisemitic-islamophobic-hate-crime-soars-israelhamas-b2470404.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67836607

X post maddyone

This is anti-Semitism on our streets, being perpetrated by our police.

And we are told that this is not antisemitic!

Is this the tolerant society we live in?

GrannyGravy 👏👏👏

GrannyGravy
A kippah is problematic whilst all other identifying forms of dress belonging to other religions are acceptable.

I am disheartened reading this thread.

I cannot see why a Jewish man (orthodox, Hasidic or whatever) shouldn’t be able to wear clothes/kippah which is part of his religion.

Burkha, head scarfs, Sikh turbans, etc., etc., are all acceptable after all…

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202404/medium-478502-img-1462.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202404/medium-69704-img-1459.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202404/medium-603503-img-1457.jpeg

Examples of Jewish orthodox clothing.

How can excuses be made, fact - a man wanted to cross a road,
police stopped him and threatened him with arrest

Cossy
Have you seen the footage? I have, and the Jewish man was not dressed in orthodox clothing. He was wearing a kippah, and otherwise dressed in normal, western clothing.
Do you know what Jewish orthodox clothing is?

Even if he were wearing orthodox clothing, people on the marches wear Arab scarves, headscarves (women) and other items of dress than identify them as Muslims. Is this a problem too?

Cossy

I too read this and was initially appalled, I read further though and the impression that was given was that the Police Officer was worried that as he was dressed in orthodox clothing his safety may be at risk. Police did not go about this in the right way though.

He was dressed in a shirt jacket and trousers, nothing Jewish orthodox there, but even if he had been that shouldn't compromise his safety. He was wearing a kippah and carrying a bag with the star of David on it which contained his prayer shawl.
If that is sufficient to be restrained, and threatened with arrest for a breach of the peace, then something is very wrong in this country and London is not a safe place for Jews on Saturdays when these marches take place.

Elrel I know the dates, Ramadan was celebrated with lights
in London on Easter

Wyllow3 Thank you for your well informed posts.

Anniebach Neither Easter nor Eid al Fitr, Lent nor Ramadan are fixed dates. This year Eid was celebrated 2 weeks after Easter. Ramadan is the period of fasting before Eid, similar to the self denial of Lent as preparation. for Easter.

Skye17

maddyone The GN website won’t let me quote your last post, but I agree with all your points.

I can understand the police’s problem. They are probably worried about mob anger, even riots. However, should there be no-go areas for Jews in London? I hate that idea.

I am not Jewish myself BTW.

No, there should be NO “no go” areas for anyone of any faith, creed or colour in our country!

I too read this and was initially appalled, I read further though and the impression that was given was that the Police Officer was worried that as he was dressed in orthodox clothing his safety may be at risk. Police did not go about this in the right way though.

Anniebach

The officers certainly didn’t assist the Jew to cross the road

I criticise the actions of these police, but no doubt they're given their orders. However to condemn all Met bobbies as thick as petra did is just nasty.

These marches are obviously anti-semitic if someone openly Jewish is seen as provocative and likely to provoke a violent reaction. I thought they were supposed to be pro-Palestine and anti-Israeli government? This man even if " he had an agenda " was not chanting slogans, nor carrying placards or flags. He was guilty of nothing more than walking near the marchers being openly Jewish. If a man is unsafe doing that then these marches need to be stopped.

Skye17. Why did you have to tell us that you're not Jewish?

EXCLUSIVE Revealed: Man threatened with arrest by police for 'breaching the peace' by being 'quite openly Jewish' near Gaza march is *chief executive of leading Jewish group - as he calls for mass demo in response

So a Jewish man is prevented from walking the streets of our capital city because he looks quite openly Jewish and is threatened with arrest because people who are quite openly protesting on our streets are nearby?
He was breaching the peace? And the protestors are not as they prevent people going about their lawful business?

This is quite unbelievable.

That's a very dangerous path the police are going down.

Had the police officer had a quiet word and said he didn't have the manpower there to protect the Jewish man if the protestors turned violent, it would be wise to go another way, that would be reasonable.

maddyone The GN website won’t let me quote your last post, but I agree with all your points.

I can understand the police’s problem. They are probably worried about mob anger, even riots. However, should there be no-go areas for Jews in London? I hate that idea.

I am not Jewish myself BTW.

I wouldn't hold your breath, two tier policing happening in London it seems to me.