To think that London, or anywhere else for that matter, does not belong to any one demographic

growstuff

eazybee

Is it an offence to walk against the flow of a demonstration?
Not waving flags, beating drums, chanting slogans or calling out abuse, surely provocative behaviour, but walking and filming, as some in the march were doing.
I do not believe he has damaged his cause, he has alerted many observers to the composition of these demonstrations,.
If the police were aware that 'some people in the demonstration could have been anti-semitic and caused harm,' why was it not suggested that they removed themselves for the general good of the crowd?

Simple answer: the police were outnumbered and knew an 'incident' would occur if that happened.

I disagree with you.

Last week I had no idea who Gideon Falter was. Now I know that he has a history of blaming people for anti-semiticism, including a civil servant whom he got sacked. He accused him of saying something anti-semitic and deeply offensive. It later transpired that he couldn't possibly have heard what he said because he was on a different floor of the building. Fortunately, the truth came out, the civil servant on on appeal and was reinstated.

Mr Falter is not a journalist, but a paid lobbyist for anti-semiticism and has a history of walking into conflict to provoke a reaction, filming incidents and then reporting them. He had appeared in the Houses of Parliament and is on record as wanting to stop the marches. He was making a political point.

He was accompanied by at least four bodyguards, one of whom was identified as working for an agency set up by Mossad, the Israeli secret police.

He is also a trustee of the JNF Trust, which raises money in the UK and supports Jewish settlement in the West Bank.

I doubt if the police officers who talked to him on Saturday knew any of the above. What they saw was somebody whose behaviour looked provocative and they offered to escort him round the demonstration to ensure he was 100% safe. It later transpired that he had already been on the other side of the road and had already a similar discussion with another police officer. There was no way he was just strolling home after synagogue. He was looking for a reaction and, unfortunately, he got one, but as the truth leaked out, it made him look like a fraud. Unfortunately, those who already might be cynical about anti-semitism will think that others were out to manufacture a reaction.

I would agree with some of that. Even much of that.
But I do think he should have been allowed to walk through the march. Stupid on his part or otherwise.

I did see the deleted post as anti semitic.

Anniebach

‘Everybody knows some of the marchers are anti semitic “

The police certainly know, critics on this thread certainly know

Of course we know that. Anybody who reads a newspaper or watches or listens to the news knows that. Has anyone on this thread denied it? No, they haven’t.

Anniebach

Anti semites have been assured they have full support from the
metropolitan police

Can you provide a link to prove that Annie? I rather doubt that you can. You are calling the Met antisemitic now - the force which visited synagogues and Jewish schools to offer support and reassurance, who posted officers outside those places to offer protection.

tickingbird

Freya5

^Shame on you, victim blaming.
This man has every right to walk where he wishes, to film as he wishes, as the marchers. Removing the anti semitic and hamas lovers would be a much better service to Londoners^

Well said but according to GSM it’s “shame on you” to whoever reported an anti Jewish post.

It would be funny if it wasn’t so vile.

The post which was deleted simply referred to GF as ‘the Jew’. It was obviously deleted because of that. It was not an antisemitic statement - Annie used the same words upthread. So yes, shame on the reporter for that. The slurs of antisemitism made against posters on this thread are appalling.

Anniebach

Calling someone openly Jewish is offensive

I totally agree. Appalling. I don’t like the way things are going at all.

‘Everybody knows some of the marchers are anti semitic “

The police certainly know, critics on this thread certainly know

^Everybody knows that some of the marchers are antisemitic. He didn't have to risk causing an incident to prove it.*

He had every right if he’s brought it into the open. Everybody is not aware that many of the marchers are AS. It’s not just isolated pockets and the ones shouting all the insults should have been arrested then and there.

Anniebach

The officers certainly didn’t assist the Jew to cross the road

But they tried to - offered to help him and tried to find an acceptable solution.

The man, as a journalist, activist and leader, would not accept that help. He had someone with him filming.

Did you hear the whole exchange?

Anti semites have been assured they have full support from the
metropolitan police

tickingbird

You’re missing the point entirely. It’s not the ‘openly Jewish’ it’s the fact that being so would place him in danger BECAUSE it proves his point that the marches are anti semitic. They should be banned. As soon as he was spotted he was being called scum and other vile insults. That’s in front of the police. Scary to think what would happen if they weren’t there.

Everybody knows that some of the marchers are antisemitic. He didn't have to risk causing an incident to prove it.

GF was no victim and no, he didn't have a right to walk wherever he wanted, he was asked politely by a police officer not to walk against the flow, was offered help including the opportunity to be with other Jews who were peacefully marching however this did not suit his purpose.

You’re missing the point entirely. It’s not the ‘openly Jewish’ it’s the fact that being so would place him in danger BECAUSE it proves his point that the marches are anti semitic. They should be banned. As soon as he was spotted he was being called scum and other vile insults. That’s in front of the police. Scary to think what would happen if they weren’t there.

eazybee

Is it an offence to walk against the flow of a demonstration?
Not waving flags, beating drums, chanting slogans or calling out abuse, surely provocative behaviour, but walking and filming, as some in the march were doing.
I do not believe he has damaged his cause, he has alerted many observers to the composition of these demonstrations,.
If the police were aware that 'some people in the demonstration could have been anti-semitic and caused harm,' why was it not suggested that they removed themselves for the general good of the crowd?

Simple answer: the police were outnumbered and knew an 'incident' would occur if that happened.

I disagree with you.

Last week I had no idea who Gideon Falter was. Now I know that he has a history of blaming people for anti-semiticism, including a civil servant whom he got sacked. He accused him of saying something anti-semitic and deeply offensive. It later transpired that he couldn't possibly have heard what he said because he was on a different floor of the building. Fortunately, the truth came out, the civil servant on on appeal and was reinstated.

Mr Falter is not a journalist, but a paid lobbyist for anti-semiticism and has a history of walking into conflict to provoke a reaction, filming incidents and then reporting them. He had appeared in the Houses of Parliament and is on record as wanting to stop the marches. He was making a political point.

He was accompanied by at least four bodyguards, one of whom was identified as working for an agency set up by Mossad, the Israeli secret police.

He is also a trustee of the JNF Trust, which raises money in the UK and supports Jewish settlement in the West Bank.

I doubt if the police officers who talked to him on Saturday knew any of the above. What they saw was somebody whose behaviour looked provocative and they offered to escort him round the demonstration to ensure he was 100% safe. It later transpired that he had already been on the other side of the road and had already a similar discussion with another police officer. There was no way he was just strolling home after synagogue. He was looking for a reaction and, unfortunately, he got one, but as the truth leaked out, it made him look like a fraud. Unfortunately, those who already might be cynical about anti-semitism will think that others were out to manufacture a reaction.

Freya5

^Shame on you, victim blaming.
This man has every right to walk where he wishes, to film as he wishes, as the marchers. Removing the anti semitic and hamas lovers would be a much better service to Londoners^

Well said but according to GSM it’s “shame on you” to whoever reported an anti Jewish post.

It would be funny if it wasn’t so vile.

I have suffered antisemitic abuse. If those on here understood what real abuse is 'openly Jewish' in the context of the situation wasn't abuse at all. I've seen more abuse on here.

AGAA4

All posts blaming GF are AS Out of order tickingbird This is abusive.

Thanks for that. Good to start the day with 😂😂😂😂😂

Vintagewhine

Just pondering what people's response would be if someone who was wearing or carrying something ( can't think what tbh) that identified him as a Catholic tried to barge past a police corden to walk against the flow of an Orange Day March in Belfast or substitute a Muslim carrying his prayer mat etc doing the same on the march organised by Gideon Falter to show Jewish solidarity against anti semitism. I wonder how many would think it was a sensible and acceptable thing to do? GF was out of order and the police acted correctly, if he wasn't there with an agenda why was he being filmed and why did he post an edited version of the video and give an untruthful account of what happened.? To label this incident as anti semitic is an insult to those who have been subject to anti semitism.

Shame on you, victim blaming.
This man has every right to walk where he wishes, to film as he wishes, as the marchers. Removing the anti semitic and hamas lovers would be a much better service to Londoners.

All posts blaming GF are AS Out of order tickingbird This is abusive.

To label this incident as anti semitic is an insult to those who have been subject to anti semitism.

Exactly!

Just pondering what people's response would be if someone who was wearing or carrying something ( can't think what tbh) that identified him as a Catholic tried to barge past a police corden to walk against the flow of an Orange Day March in Belfast or substitute a Muslim carrying his prayer mat etc doing the same on the march organised by Gideon Falter to show Jewish solidarity against anti semitism. I wonder how many would think it was a sensible and acceptable thing to do? GF was out of order and the police acted correctly, if he wasn't there with an agenda why was he being filmed and why did he post an edited version of the video and give an untruthful account of what happened.? To label this incident as anti semitic is an insult to those who have been subject to anti semitism.

GSM

The latter is a statement of fact and I doubt it was said in a pejorative manner - but someone’s precious, pearl-clutching mindset was offended and they reported it. Shame on them

Oh the hypocrisy! You reported someone the other day and said as such. Talk about “Do as I say, not as I do”.

FWIW I didn’t report any post and, in any event, it must have been offensive or the mods would have left it there.

All posts blaming GF are AS, unconscious or otherwise. The fact that the officer was concerned for his safety proves that these are anti semitic marches. Being ‘openly Jewish’ near that march put him in danger because a large number of those marchers are Jew haters. Many on here are ok with that.

If citizens of this country aren’t safe to go about their business due to these marches they should either be banned or contained within a designated area. They’ve made their point, GF has made his point and my eyes have been opened to the true nature of some on here and believe me, to use the phrase the usual pearl clutchers love it’s deeply unpleasant.

Is it an offence to walk against the flow of a demonstration?
Not waving flags, beating drums, chanting slogans or calling out abuse, surely provocative behaviour, but walking and filming, as some in the march were doing.
I do not believe he has damaged his cause, he has alerted many observers to the composition of these demonstrations,.
If the police were aware that 'some people in the demonstration could have been anti-semitic and caused harm,' why was it not suggested that they removed themselves for the general good of the crowd?

Simple answer: the police were outnumbered and knew an 'incident' would occur if that happened.

Anniebach

Denial of anti semitism is frightening, the same happened in the 30’s,then came the Ghettos , then came the Holocaust

Yes, denying anti-semiticism is frightening, but that isn't what was happening on Saturday. The police officer was very much aware that some of the people on the demonstration could have been anti-semitic and could have harmed Mr Falter.

Now that more footage has emerged, Mr Falter has actually damaged his cause because people will be cynical and wonder whether reported anti-semitism is true.

This was the second time during the day he had attempted to walk against the crowd and been stopped. Footage shows that he had been hanging around for about an hour. He wasn't on a casual walk home from synagogue.

Calling someone openly Jewish is offensive