Teachers toilet training

All these mentions of parents being too busy make me think of how my mother and others at that time coped. I was brought up during the war, my mother worked as did so many others. They did not have washing machines or any of the equipment , which makes life so easier, just terry nappies. More than likely there was no car, no partner around, and yet they worked so hard to make life as pleasant as possible for everyone. They coped and coped magnificently.
It's hard non stop work bringing up children to be useful members of society. Perhaps that is a lesson that has not been learned by some of the present generation of parents.

My adult son, whose own children are now 19 and 16, informed me when they were young that potty training back in my day was ‘toilet timed’, not ‘toilet trained’, meaning popping him and his sister on the potty after a meal etc was not really training them, just when they were likely to go.

Whatever, but they soon picked it up, his sister quicker than him.

(His own children were potty trained at a respectable age however).

I, at 71, tend to go to do a ‘number two’ after breakfast each day.

Perhaps I too, am ‘toilet timed’.

😂🚽

I have read numerous opinions on this subject and have come to the conclusion that the use of disposable nappies is the culprit. ( and I am talking about normally developed children here and not those with physical or psychological health issues)

Disposables have improved to such an extent that the toddler can be unaware of wetness or soiling -which is the imperative to most kids to get them off and they don’t need laundering.

No smelly buckets soaking, washers wirring away night and day, and no waiting for the right weather to dry them.
They’re just too darned easy

Before the parent knows it the child is nearly starting school and the moment has passed.
Sorry but I believe it is a new and different kind of neglect.
Along with -(don’t get me started) feeding your children breakfast, brushing their hair, and teaching them how to use cutlery.

Until I retired, I was in a classroom for 30 years and things have never been this bad. Yes there are children with additional learning needs, but a large number is just due to lazy parenting and expecting the schools to do more and more of their jobs. Two members of staff have to deal with any accidents, meaning on some occasions a staff member will have to be brought out of another class. When I left we had 3 5 year olds in one class who were still dirtying. On one occasion I was in one toilet, the other staff member was in the toilet next door and the Headmistress was in another. Luckily the toilets were in the classroom, as the rest of the class had to be left. We'd get them dry, clean and trained, then the school holidays would come and we'd be back to square one. Don't forget that other children in the class miss out on teaching time, when these occasions arise. Things would soon change, if children weren't allowed to start school unless they were toilet trained

When children were in terry nappies virtually every one of them was toilet trained by the age of 2. If you had a bucket full of nappies hanging around that you had to boil wash you made sure your child was out at them as soon as possible.

Have thought for years that disposable nappies have hindered children from achieving being toilet trained. They are too comfortable. The old style cloth nappies were certainly not comfy when wet and to me encouraged children to achieve wearing pants. Also for the responsible adults far too convenient to let children wear disposable until convenient to be changed. Lock down has been over for two years, why are 3 year olds still wearing nappies never mind 5 year olds - convenience of course. It always comes down to being so being someone else's responsibility these days.

Both our girls were out of nappies by the time they were two. I think the horror of the nappy bucket and having no tumble dryer and consequently nappies like sandpaper helped. It took one day of knickerless girls, a strategically placed potty, lots of encouragement plus the lure of some pretty knickers to wear instead of nappies. I think it’s utterly outrageous that children with no medical problems are starting school in nappies. I’m all for waiting for children to be toilet trained before starting school. Why should teachers be expected to change nappies? Of course the younger ones will have the odd accident, I know mine did, but some dry knickers were always available.

I have a daughter who works in a mainstream primary school liaising between parents and teachers and a granddaughter who works in a reception class. Some parents think it’s the school’s responsibility to potty train and to teach them to read. Nothing to do with Covid or home schooling more a can’t be bothered attitude.

Please, so many of you are blaming Covid (for almost everything)! This is just lazy parenting. Some children have problems and extra help is needed, but, we are talking about normal developing children here. All 3 of my children had to be potty trained before being able to go to playschool/nursery, I also didn't want to be changing nappies for a child old enough to use the toilet. It is also expensive to be using disposable nappies, I wouldn't have been able to afford it! But the current generation seem to think everything from toilet training to feeding their kids is the responsibility of society, not them, and until we make it clear it is their responsibility we will remain stuck with this problem.

So many people are judgemental without knowing families in any way

Well I’m dealing with this situation at the moment. I am a nursery teacher and having visits from teachers who are visiting the children that will be attending primary school in September. I have at least three in nappies and the same with speech difficulty. A lot in my opinion is lazy parenting and asking us to train them in nursery not really our job. I retire in eighteen months time not that I’m counting! We do have a lot more sen children again not toilet trained and will be attending school. Years ago we would not have accepted 3/4 year olds in pre school room if not toilet trained.

Totally agree gmar22.

There are assistants and welfare staff to deal with toilet related things. The teacher does not have to leave the class unattended while they change a nappy.

Children enter school at 4 years old, whereby years ago it would be 5 years. I never agreed to children at school from 4 years old, many are not ready in many ways. I understand the odd accident that’s to be understood but nappies and not toilet trained blame the parents.

ReadyMeals

There are assistants and welfare staff to deal with toilet related things. The teacher does not have to leave the class unattended while they change a nappy.

In an ideal world, possibly, but where is this ideal world?
A TA’s job does not include nappy changing and I’m not sure what you mean by welfare staff. At our school welfare is usually lunchtime staff, there to serve meals and to supervise the children. Two of those disappearing to change a child’s nappy causes problems too.
If there’s a teacher and one TA, and safeguarding requires two adults to deal with intimate care, then help from another class is needed.

Sorry, Spencer my daughter started school when she was 4. (she is 61 now) so your statement is not entirely correct.
I was 4 as well.

I often changed children on my own many years ago when I taught Primary One classes. No rules about two adults in those days, usually I had a Classroom Assistant only for an hour a day. I used my classroom cupboard, with the door slightly open, where I kept a basket with clean pants, wet wipes and plastic bags for the wet pants.
Accidents were occasional and most often of the wet kind. The children were between four and a half and five and a half on starting school in August.

I remember going to bring the lines in one morning and a wee girl waving a paper bag above her head announcing to one and all,
" Mrs G, here's your kickers!"

It’s not ideal having children in school at 4 years old, but as westendgirl points out, it has been happening for a very long time.
When I started teaching the my reception class had a September and Christmas intake, 38 children and no TA/nursery nurse. I’m grateful the rule was toilet trained before starting school
Children did have occasional accidents, the spare clothes box was always in existence, but toilet training took place before starting school. Many preschools required children to be toilet trained too.

I’m in my 50s and started school at 4. I’m a lazy gentle parent and didn’t potty train my now teenaged daughter. She decided shortly after she turned two that she no longer wanted nappies and that was that. She found disposable nappies very uncomfortable.

I work in primary and thankfully not experienced reception children in nappies. Though they occasionally do have accidents of course and they are expected to sort themselves out. Whilst I have no doubt children are turning up in nappies, anecdotally from colleagues in other schools, it isn’t common.

Often a TA is there to assist with specific children with learning difficulties or special needs. Funding may have been allocated for this. If the TA has to do far more toileting than the occasional accident then that’s taking the TA away from what they are there for. Certainly the case when I was a TA but that was a few years ago. Maybe someone can clarify?

If you mean funding for SEND, then there could be a TA allocated to a particular child, it would be vanishingly rare in my area for that to be all day every day, and usually the funding for a full time TA would come from a number of childrens funding, ie there would be a number of children in the class with additional needs. However that is a really interesting point and there is already an issue of staff allocated to particularly children being whisked away to cover staff sickness for example.

Allocated to specific children that should say!

Nicenanny3

I have the solution don't let them attend school until they are out of nappies and toilet trained, simple. When my children attended nursery a couple of mornings a week they had to be toilet trained and out of nappies and none of the mums questioned this but just made sure they were.

My daughter would never have attended school then. She was 10 before they found out what the problem was and 16 before she could reliably be dry.

My thoughts entirely.

Spencer doesn't say how many years ago. I was 5 and born at Christmas, so nearly six, I suppose. I'm 79 now. There was only one girl who had a problem, and I think she may have been a problem child as she would pinch the others in the class.