WFA, bus pass, triple lock,

I was fortunate enough to be able to stay at school to do A levels . I think only one of our sixth form went to University and one to Art school. The majority went onto Teacher training, secretarial training and civil service. I went off to train as a nurse which I have never regretted. In my 40’s I completed a degree in nursing “ on the job”.
DH and I got our first mortgage at 15% interest and climbing, a year before I became pregnant. I had to leave my job (no choice) and then did evening and weekend locum or agency work until the children were about 11 I think. So lost Pension years and chances of any career development. Every generation has struggles . I really hope that more pensioners will claim pension credit now ,it has the least uptake of all and opens so many opportunities for other benefits for pensioners who only have the state pension .There are rich pensioners and they shouldn’t be receiving the WFA it should be means tested .

Most of us are concerned about those who are not eligible for pension credit but will still struggle to pay their heating bills.

I think you are right Callistemon213 - that is my concern too.

I think it is quite obvious - and must be to Reeves also - that such pensioners have (a) probably budgeted this year with that sum in mind, (b) will be hit hard by the 10% energy price-cap increase in October, and (c) have been given no time to even attempt to save any money to cover the shortfall.

Unfortunately, such pensioners have no clout, they can't show their anger in any way that will embarrass the government so, as others have said - they are an easy target.

I'm not, in principle, against the removal of the WFA from those who are wealthy enough to absorb it without any problem - does Alan Sugar need the WFA? But this is targeting those who are going to feel it keenly, and that is just not acceptable

“Life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2020 to 2022 was 78.6 years for males and 82.6 years for females; compared with 2017 to 2019, life expectancy has fallen by 38 weeks from 79.3 years for males and by 23 weeks from 83.0 years for females.”

I’m sure Covid did lower the average somewhat, but the trend is ever upwards, moreover we are healthier for longer because of ever more expensive treatments to keep us healthy

This was never envisaged in 1947 when lifespan for men was only 65 and women 70. The NHS payments we make are totally inadequate to pay for our continuing care, even contributions by the current working generations cannot make up the shortfall.

25% of pensioners “needing” WFA is entirely my guess, but I guess 90% want it.

We are on the old state pension with a very small work pension We aren’t on any benefits and energy bills and council tax eat the majority of our income.
Luckily living frugally is a habit now, so we have some savings.

David49

“Life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2020 to 2022 was 78.6 years for males and 82.6 years for females; compared with 2017 to 2019, life expectancy has fallen by 38 weeks from 79.3 years for males and by 23 weeks from 83.0 years for females.”

I’m sure Covid did lower the average somewhat, but the trend is ever upwards, moreover we are healthier for longer because of ever more expensive treatments to keep us healthy

This was never envisaged in 1947 when lifespan for men was only 65 and women 70. The NHS payments we make are totally inadequate to pay for our continuing care, even contributions by the current working generations cannot make up the shortfall.

25% of pensioners “needing” WFA is entirely my guess, but I guess 90% want it.

25% of pensioners “needing” WFA is entirely my guess, but I guess 90% want it.

Yes - I want it - it means I don't have to withdraw from my savings which have been ear-marked for a new boiler, walk-in shower for my disabled partner, and a new roof for my Grade11 listed house which due to it being Grade11 means I am limited to the material I'm allowed to use = more expensive.

However.

I am not going to be cold because I can pay the bill; I don't have to make a choice between the 'heating-or-eating' dilemma, and I'm not going to have sleepless nights worrying about the next fuel bill. So, personally, if it's a case of "we're all in this together" then I'd happily accept the withdrawal.

But here's the thing. Two things.

Those just above the pension credit bar - that supposed 25%, which is quite a sizeable number of pensioners - are not well-off enough to be able to absorb that allowance, particularly as they've been given no advance notice, no time to budget. This move is immoral, the bar too narrow. The cut-off should have been higher, and the withdrawal shelved until next year.

Because

We are not all in it together. And those who created this debt, this so called 'black hole'... those who decided Brexit was going to give us £millions per week 'extra' to spend on... well, you know the story - have made us poorer as a nation. And all that wasted £9+ billion on useless PPE equipment (the DHSC's own estimate) - poof sucked out of the economy, gone, just like that.

So why aren't those who caused this 'economic crisis' paying the cost? Why are just-about-managing pensioners going to be wrapping themselves in duvets or going to bed early to stay warm? Why are they footing the 'bill'?

And I would ask the same question of a Tory government because, ultimately, they too would've considered this - did in fact consider it, because they commissioned a consultation paper and the removal of WFA was on it.

The reason is because Starmer's Labour Party - and I voted for it purely on the basis that its members (fingers crossed) were going to be less-corrupt, less incompetent, and less self-seeking, is running the country under the exact-same status quo as the Tories, he and the party have no other choice, otherwise they'd be into Corbyn-territory and would never have won the election. He, and they, have to run with both the hare and the hounds.

So expect more efficiency, less corruption, a more 'orderly' government but don't expect the impoverished working-class and pensioners to suddenly be less impoverished... I just really wish they'd had the decency to recognise that those just above the PC cut-off point will suffer as much - in some cases possibly more - than those who are below it.

Bad (and immoral) move.

Just to be clear, I am not signing anything that endeavours to restore the WFA wholesale, only petitions that will raise the cut-off bar - delayed until next year. Because they can do that if they want to.

This was never envisaged in 1947 when lifespan for men was only 65 and women 70. The NHS payments we make are totally inadequate to pay for our continuing care, even contributions by the current working generations cannot make up the shortfall.

All true - but successive governments have had plenty of time to actually deal with this. They had and have the data, the stats - they know people are living longer and have been doing so for some time, it's not a sudden, surprise finding. Each government has shelved the issue - as they have with social care. Kicked it into the long grass, they all have done that, kicked the can further down the road, for short-term political gain.

Little rant over and out!

Teacher Training, 2 years the. First post in September 1959, SE London, first pay check £36. Three of us shared a 2 bedroomed flat, rent £36 so £12 month each. £1 each per week in kitty for food. We could afford trains home for a weekend every few weeks, occasional Thursday evenings shopping at C&A Oxford Street, West End theatre shows enjoyed from the gods when we felt like it - Oliver!, West Side Story and many more. And this was before the 60s really began to swing! Happy Days! Work? Classes of 40+ but we enjoyed it and so did the kids!

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

I do get that they may feel resentful they dont have those benefits. However there is little point blaming the older generation who had them. The point being if those benefits were offered today they would take them. Benefits change. That's life! Generational blaming is pointless and divisive!

Madgran77

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

I do get that they may feel resentful they dont have those benefits. However there is little point blaming the older generation who had them. The point being if those benefits were offered today they would take them. Benefits change. That's life! Generational blaming is pointless and divisive!

I couldn't agree more, but that doesn't mean that I can't try to understand their grievances.. I know life is difficult for a huge number of people young and old.. I am grateful for my earlier life is all...

One day, these people will be elderly. I hope that the younger generations then won’t be as contemptuous as some seem to be now.
I’d like to point out, too, that many pensioners also pay tax - once income reaches above the £12500 tax free threshold then tax becomes payable on anything above that threshold. There are very few extremely wealthy pensioners.
Also, it’s a bit of a myth about our generation “never had it so good” - there have always been times of struggle, with some having greater difficulties than others. This will never change. Blaming previous generations for the troubles of the present is pointless.

that, not about. I wish there was an amendment option on this site.

Life was difficult when I was younger. Jumping through hoops for a mortgage -we saved for several years to afford a deposit.

We still had to put in the effort to be first in the queue when a house came up for sale,
Mortgages cost less, but pay was a lot less. When we finally managed to get a mortgage on a small house, I had £6pw for shopping after we’d put away for bills, rates etc. and DH walked the 5 miles into work to save on bus fare. We only holidayed with relations until my eldest was 12 then we camped.
On the other hand fewer people needed more than one home to be happy and programmes like Homes Under the Hammer hadn’t boosted the money making potential of buying up properties that less well off could afford.
We did have access to a doctor and a dentist, but we don’t now, any more than young people do.

What we did have that was easier, was no expectation of all the must haves that young people have now.
Must haves like mobile phones, subscriptions to apps,
contact lenses,
endless new clothes, even if only from Primark,
and anything else influencers tell them they must have.

I agree that the young have a very hard time, and I also agree that we did't have life handed to us on a plate.

It's more of the 'divide and rule' that we see everywhere these days. If people can blame other groups of people they aren't blaming the government. I think it was Dominic Cummings who started the 'intergenerational unfairness' unit, or whatever it was. It started myths about avocados and Starbucks stopping the young from buying houses, as well as cheap houses that are now worth millions and grants with free university for older people. There is some truth in all of it, but it is a gross oversimplification.

Madgran77

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

I do get that they may feel resentful they dont have those benefits. However there is little point blaming the older generation who had them. The point being if those benefits were offered today they would take them. Benefits change. That's life! Generational blaming is pointless and divisive!

I do get that they may feel resentful they dont have those benefits. However there is little point blaming the older generation who had them.

I believe the thinking is that we had those benefits - but then largely, though not exclusively, voted for a government determined to remove them. In other words, we pulled up the ladder behind us. Because 'socialist' principles "don't work".

That is how it was explained to me. And, to be fair, to a degree they have a point.

As a single-parent around that time - I had a run-of-the-mill, full-time, fairly reasonably paid job with holiday and sick pay; affordable and secure accommodation and energy bills; and child-care. All from one wage - and still a little left over each month for the odd 'treat'.

How many one-parent families can have that now? Unless they are high-flyers?

As a pensioner I'm not eligible for pension credit but. as I understand things I get the same as those on it but now not eligible for the winter payments what's that if I was eligible for pension credit id be better off

Doodledog

I agree that the young have a very hard time, and I also agree that we did't have life handed to us on a plate.

It's more of the 'divide and rule' that we see everywhere these days. If people can blame other groups of people they aren't blaming the government. I think it was Dominic Cummings who started the 'intergenerational unfairness' unit, or whatever it was. It started myths about avocados and Starbucks stopping the young from buying houses, as well as cheap houses that are now worth millions and grants with free university for older people. There is some truth in all of it, but it is a gross oversimplification.

I think it was Dominic Cummings who started the 'intergenerational unfairness' unit, or whatever it was.

I think the Intergenerational Foundation was set up by Angus Hanton, not sure about Cummings although he did set up other Think Tanks.

What is Cummings doing now? I doubt he's busy looking after an allotment in Barnard's Castle.

As a single-parent around that time - I had a run-of-the-mill, full-time, fairly reasonably paid job with holiday and sick pay; affordable and secure accommodation and energy bills; and child-care. All from one wage - and still a little left over each month for the odd 'treat'.

I'm not sure how!
In the 1969s/70s it took two full-time salaries to save for two years for a deposit for a house and furnish it with mainly second-hand furniture.

In the early 1980s we moved to London and existed, rather than lived, I rushed out in the evenings to a mundane job as soon as DH got home from work in order to pay for extras - like Christmas..
Home-made or second-hand clothes, watching the overdraft anxiously.
So I do know what it's like to struggle even with one of us in a managerial position.

As a single-parent around that time - I had a run-of-the-mill, full-time, fairly reasonably paid job with holiday and sick pay; affordable and secure accommodation and energy bills; and child-care. All from one wage - and still a little left over each month for the odd 'treat'.

I’m not sure how either.

Living in a flat and trying to save for a deposit wasn’t easy. It took us 2 years.
No maternity leave or the right to return to your job if you hadn’t worked long enough and a one off minuscule payment (though I was grateful at the time).
Consequently I couldn’t afford child care until I was working again and in teaching, you were still asked about existing and planned children😱.

I kept a ledger of all bills and payments in and out so we could see when baked bean weeks were essential.
How I’d have loved a WFP. We could have bought loads more paraffin for our stoves, but of course I’d have been too young.

I applied for and got free milk for a while, but the warning was strict If your circumstances change and you do not declare it you could be liable for prosecution! DH’s small pay rise made me very nervous, but evidently we were still poor enough to qualify.
We even got free birth control if you didn’t mind going to the clinic and standing in a queue waiting to be asked how many condoms you needed and being obliged to accept pessaries as well.
I feel for the young today, with house prices the way they are, the necessity of having a mobile phone etc. but I don’t see that the older folk are any less deserving.

The feeling amongst many of the young is that they will never have what we have. I started work at 15 and have worked all my life. They would like that chance. Renting a home is more difficult now as is buying one. I recognise their feelings, I would feel the same in their place no doubt My husband started an apprenticeship at 15, low wage for 6 years, there were plenty of jobs then though at the end of it.. You try finding such an apprenticeship now, we've no industries l left. You can’t blame them for feeling let down. My hardworking husband took nothing out of the country but paid in until he died of cancer at 60. Im keeping going as long as i can.

RosiesMaw2

westendgirl

Yes and we had huge interest rates,no maternity leave. (I had to resign from my teaching post), no child allowance for the first child, heavy pushchairs which had to be collapsed when getting on buses,the cheap flights and holidays were difficult to get if you were a single mum with one child.Mortgages were 2 1/2 times salary with no exceptions.Power cuts, towelling nappies to boil, and so it goes on . I think most generations have their difficulties.

Hear, hear

I think we should go back to towelling nappies. Disposable are disgusting, apart from emergencies or travelling,

I’m starting to see comments (not on GN), but in the Times with ire directed at ”rich entitled Gen X’ers and their 2nd homes” rather than “greedy rich boomers” just recently. I suppose give it time and vitriol will be directed at millennials by Gen Z’ers.

"Just to be clear, I am not signing anything that endeavours to restore the WFA wholesale, only petitions that will raise the cut-off bar - delayed until next year. Because they can do that if they want to".

I've actually written to the three petitions currently out which all have an all or nothing approach and asked "please can you have a petition that raises the cut off point and gives notice" to no avail, I'm a L party member frustrated by this but will keep trying with my MP etc.

I really think to will make all the difference to remove the fear but raise money from the better off for other aspects of care that we need as older people.

I wish there was something pensioners could strike about.

I still don’t understand why there are two classes of state pension. I worked full time and paid NI from 15 to 60, that’s 45 years. Retiring before 2016 I get the lower rate which is about £200 pm less than the new, which only needs 35 years of NI to get the full pension. If state pension is raised each year percentage wise, this gapwill widen.

I am happy for those on the new much improved pension, I really am, but think it’s unfair on older pensioners who have contributed fir so long not to get parity. Perhaps they hope we die off quietly and cause no trouble.

I did write a while ago to my now ex Tory MP, got no sensible explanation but might repeat to my new Labour MP and see if he can enlighten me.

biglouis

People in younger generations forget that many pensioners still work in an employed job and are therefore paying tax. Or they work as carers or volunteers, thus saving the country thousands of pounds.

There is this misapprehension of all pensioners as "rich boomers" (how I hate that expression) who are sitting on their asses in million pound houses. When in fact for every rich pensioner that are probably two who are struggling or just about managing. The problem is that the just about managing are probably going to be pushed into poverty by this short sighted measure and the prices being charged by greedy power companies.

There must be some method of ensuring that the necessary funds go to people who are on the cusp (because of a small occupational pension) and not giving them to people who are still comfortably off. The WFP should be available to everyone who is on a means tested benefit - including housing and council tax benefit.

Yes, I agree.

There must be some method of ensuring that the necessary funds go to people who are on the cusp (because of a small occupational pension) and not giving them to people who are still comfortably off. The WFP should be available to everyone who is on a means tested benefit - including housing and council tax benefit.
As long as there is means-testing there will be people on the cusp, even if the cusp moves a bit. That's how it works.

I don't disagree with anyone, but I think it's pointless to keep making comparisons between our generations and those of young people. Times are different. They have opportunities that most of us didn't (travel, education, freedoms of all kinds), and we had things that they don't (cheaper housing with social housing as a fallback, free university for those who went, better career opportunities, universal child benefit and so on). Young people (and older ones) spend money on things that weren't available to us at their age - the infamous flatscreen TVs, iPhones and avocados, but however old we are, we will have had things that our parents didn't.

WRT the new/old pensions, the new one kicks in 6-7 years after the old, there is no widow's element, and no opportunity to increase it by paying more in. Not everyone on the old system gets less than on the new. My mother gets more than I will get and she only worked for a few years, starting in her 50s and retiring at 55. It is made up of SERPS and my father's pension (which also had a SERPS element) which she inherited.

I am at the younger end of the 'Boomer' group, and could make unfavourable comparisons with the previous one, and even with the older 'Boomers' (MIRAS, mortgages payable on one salary, stable employment, pensions at 60 for women, no bills to put children through university etc). But that would be to ignore the blatant sexism that was still there 'in my day', but was much worse for my mother. It's never like for like, is it?