warm places for the elderly to go to because they are not getting the winter fuel payment

MissAdventure

There were warm spaces last year.
There are food banks.

It's £4 a week.

👏👏

P.S. forgot to say, many energy suppliers will provide a free heated throw for elderly customers. I know British Gas and Octopus do but, I understood, many others do as well.

Grammaretto

I spend far more on heating than on food. Despite a new boiler and thermostatically controlled radiators, I can't function if my extremities are freezing.

It's minus 6 tonight. I'm sleeping in my sitting room with the heating on in here and I'm snug as a bug. I had the fire lit earlier.

I'm recovering from a hip replacement a week ago so I am treating myself.

I wish you a full and speedy recovery.

However, it’s not “treating yourself” to keep yourself and your home warm in the winter, it really is the only sensible thing to do.

This really isn’t the first year we’ve discussed heating one’s home and it’s not just down to WFP being withdrawn for the majority of pensioners.

I don’t agree with it being withdrawn so suddenly nor the low criteria for keeping it BUT rather than continually Labour bashing, let’s look out for those who are difficulty and see if we can help in some way.

Those I feel most sorry for are those out in rural areas reliant on very expensive oil based heating.

Before she goes out in the morning she turns the heating off.

There’s no evidence that the woman wasn’t about to turn it on again when the neighbour called round apparently soon after the woman got home at 5:00pm. OP posted just after 6:00pm by which time her friend had already reported to her that they had been around to see the neighbour.

I don’t leave my heating on if I am going to be out all day. I worry about the cost of heating just like everybody else (just as this woman does) but that doesn’t mean I can’t afford it. If it’s cold when I get home, I switch it on and by the time I’ve make a cuppa and got myself sorted out, shopping put away or whatever, the house is warming up nicely. I am not knocking those who prefer to leave the heating on all day as a low temperature. It's just how I prefer to do things.

While I applaud the neighbours for their care and concern, we don’t know the whole story and neither do they - whether this woman is in genuine fuel poverty or is just trying to be economical. I imagine that quite a lot of us grew up in cold houses and liked the outdoors. I am used to cold, prefer it to heat and find constantly heated rooms and buildings uncomfortable, sometimes suffocating but I accept that we are all different and that health conditions can necessitate using more domestic energy - but there’s no mention of that here.

I also have what some might regard as an ancient boiler as it’s almost 40 years old but the engineer who services it annually says it works efficiently and there’s no need to change it.

Similar to what Franbern has said, someone living on their own should have income of £218.15 pw. A 20W boiler burning gas all the time - which it won’t be once the thermostat temperature is reached - costs around £1 an hour.

This from Octopus OctoAssist talking about the economy of using electric blankets but mentioning the cost of heating the whole house per day.

One of our boffins realised that some customers were paying to heat their entire homes, even if they lived alone. He did some calculations and found out that where heating a whole home costs around £4 a day, an energy-efficient electric blanket can heat a person for just 2-4p an hour.

So £4 a day, £28 a week which would still leave someone with minimum income £190 a week for everything else. That number accords neatly with my own January bill which covers three weeks of December and one of January. Total gas charges were £110 including standing charge and VAT so just over £25 a week.

We shut doors on bedrooms we're not using.
Every radiator is fitted with a thermostat so, if the temperature does drop considerably, they would click in just to take the chill off those rooms.

Cossy. On a historical note.

The 2019 House of Commons Briefing paper shows how making early Winter Fuel payments for “off-grid” households - so they could buy in oil when it was less expensive - was proposed but rejected on the grounds of the cost of identifying those who heated by oil and having a separate payment system for them, That was about 12 years ago. Section 6 of this for anyone interested:

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06019/SN06019.pdf

Pensions Minister Steve Webb said:

^To get this scheme up and running, we would have to identify
which of the 12 million households were eligible for it and we
would have to invent a claims process—I assume that the hon.
Gentleman [Mr Weir] would suggest that people should be able
to make a claim to us—and advertise that. We would then have
manually to separate the potentially hundreds of thousands of
cases, if not more, and process them differently. We estimate that the running costs to the Department would be several million pounds. It is not a trivial task.^

Echoes of the WASPI debacle when the Government deemed it to expensive to identify and tell women individually what their new SP date would be.

theworriedwell

I think all the reporting about the WFA is frightening people. At the end of the day if you make monthly payments to spread the cost over the year a couple of very cold weeks won't be that much on a monthly basis. We've also had some mild weeks so that will also help.

When I posted the above I thought I'd get a lot of criticism but several people have agreed. I do think some TV and newspapers need to be more responsible and without a doubt some who couldn't give a damn about the elderly or poor are using them for political reasons.

I know Martin Lewis did a piece on MSE about leaving heating on all day. I'm pretty sure he said it was a myth that this was cheaper than turning it on when you need it but I'd have to try and find the article.

Right found it, www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-saving-myths/

Looks like there isn't a one size fits all answer to this. His suggestion is to experiment and find out what works for you, your home and your heating system.

I agree with you theworriedwell.

I think reporting of the energy price cap can also mislead people who don't really understand what it is.

I have encountered many people who hear the latest number and assume that is what they are going to pay when in fact it's just a number based on average usage for a dual-fuel 2-3 person household based on using 2700 kWh of electricity and 11500 kWh of gas in a year.

I recall someone contacted MSE complaining that their annual bill was higher than the cap. They thought their overall bill was capped not the prices.

If used as a general guide, the cap can be helpful c/f this from Ofgem:

From 1 January to 31 March 2025 the price for energy for a typical household who use electricity and gas and pay by Direct Debit will go up by 1.2% to £1,738 per year. This is because wholesale prices remain high due to global factors.

This is 10% (£190) per year lower than the price cap set from 1 January to 31 March 2024 (£1,928).

In other words, someone still on the price cap and using to these kWh levels will now pay £190 less a year - which should lessen the blow of losing the WFP. Those using less will save less and those using more will save more.

For the first time, yesterday, I had a taste of the difference that being older makes.

I went for a walk, a bit further than was wise and got chilled. I couldn’t get warm all day. I had the heating on at 20. I sat with the electric throw. I even had a hot water bottle on my lap.

My body would just not respond. It really made me think about the physiological changes that happen as you age and how maybe “putting the heating on” isn’t always the answer if you’ve let yourself get cold before.

It's all very well saying people can go out to warm places, e.g. Asda, libraries etc but, when the weather is snow and ice, this can present it's own problems. Not everyone lives near enough to walk to such places, and, even if they have a car, the roads could be dangerous. I still think the withdrawal of the WFA was a criminal action when Starmer and his ilk are safely warm in a choice of houses, supported by the constituents!

I’m sorry if I was in that situation I’d sod the worry of the cost. I’d deal with energy companies in the summer and offer them £5 a month to clear the debt. At the end of the day the cold could kill these people so they won’t have to worry about the cost then. So angry hearing some folk are suffering like this. 😡

Quite so, they cold get hypothermia and end up in A&E.

"my friend has insisted she stays with her tonight". What did the woman want to do? Yes, offer friendly advice about using a timer etc, yes suggest a heated throw, but kidnap the woman because you think her house is too cold? I am not 80, but am in my 70s, and live in Scotland where it's currently -5 (daytime). If anyone came round to see me and tried to kidnap me I'd tell them to bog off, and would call the police if they wouldn't leave. And yes I turn the heating off if I'm going to be out, and yes it's icy cold when I get back, but it warms up quickly.

It's a shame that this post can't be shared with Starmer and his cronies 🤬. They have absolutely no idea what living in the real world is like.

Some good news , the elderly lady has admitted that everything is getting too much for her and was very upset , I think she has been quite stubborn over the last couple of years , she has a daughter who has wanted her mother to move in with them but she refused to and she also has a sister who also wants her to move in with her as she is lonely and they have always been close, so she has agreed to move in with her sister for a trial run , if it works out she will sell her house and invest the money in case she ever needs a care home. My friend still cannot understand how none of the family never realised how cold the house is and the fact there is no double glazing , the daughter does live about 200 miles away but even so she must have has some idea !

Do you think the media uproar has worried older people so much that they fear putting the heating on. I have mine on a timer for an hour early morning and 2 in the evening and am finding it affordable, I also have a heated cushion which is rather cosy if I’m reading and a throw on my chair. I have many friends who are all of pension age and none are freezing although are being cautious. Warming the body rather than the building seems to work well

valdali

Ilovecheese

They need to have a bit more common sense than to let themselves get so cold.

Isn't the danger with hypothermia, that if someone's sitting in the cold in one postion for a long time, they don't realise how cold they're getting and then once their body temperature starts falling, it makes them sleepy?

I don't think people conciously let themselves get cold, it's important to make sure you get up & make a drink or have a snack regularly ( or just change position) because that's when you realise you need to put the heating or a fire on.

I’ve had hyperthermia. Once it kicks in you feel lovely and warm and sleepy. At the time I was physically working.
I was fortunate to be with someone who recognised what was happening.

MrsMatt

It's a shame that this post can't be shared with Starmer and his cronies 🤬. They have absolutely no idea what living in the real world is like.

Have you completely forgotten that for the previous 14 years people of all ages couldn’t afford heating??

Starmer didn’t cause this, I think it was a mistake to remove it so suddenly and without warning, and it’s certainly made a bad situation worse for some people, please can we put this in perspective.

MaiBea

Do you think the media uproar has worried older people so much that they fear putting the heating on. I have mine on a timer for an hour early morning and 2 in the evening and am finding it affordable, I also have a heated cushion which is rather cosy if I’m reading and a throw on my chair. I have many friends who are all of pension age and none are freezing although are being cautious. Warming the body rather than the building seems to work well

Yes I do think that.
I’m reminded of an elderly lady I was supporting when covid first hit.
I went to see her and she was wearing a mask inside her home because she believed that’s what she had to do.

surfingsal

Some good news , the elderly lady has admitted that everything is getting too much for her and was very upset , I think she has been quite stubborn over the last couple of years , she has a daughter who has wanted her mother to move in with them but she refused to and she also has a sister who also wants her to move in with her as she is lonely and they have always been close, so she has agreed to move in with her sister for a trial run , if it works out she will sell her house and invest the money in case she ever needs a care home. My friend still cannot understand how none of the family never realised how cold the house is and the fact there is no double glazing , the daughter does live about 200 miles away but even so she must have has some idea !

Appreciate the update. It would seem common sense has prevailed and I can relax now. Thank you.

Our Quaker Meeting House in central Edinburgh is open as a warm space. But in the past nobody came other than Quakers who had come to help out. Maybe not a lot of housing round about.
I am chronically ill with ME and find my electric throw brilliant for warming me up. My daughter gave it to me as a present. I think it might have been about forty to sixty pounds.

I have a friend that says he won’t allow himself to be cold and will deal with the debt later. Not being coldest in the graveyard mentality. Not an easy situation, especially with this winter being so cold .

I don't think this winter is even so cold.
Certainly we've had some really cold days, but winter has always featured cold weather.

petra

valdali

Ilovecheese

They need to have a bit more common sense than to let themselves get so cold.

Isn't the danger with hypothermia, that if someone's sitting in the cold in one postion for a long time, they don't realise how cold they're getting and then once their body temperature starts falling, it makes them sleepy?

I don't think people conciously let themselves get cold, it's important to make sure you get up & make a drink or have a snack regularly ( or just change position) because that's when you realise you need to put the heating or a fire on.

I’ve had hyperthermia. Once it kicks in you feel lovely and warm and sleepy. At the time I was physically working.
I was fortunate to be with someone who recognised what was happening.

That's hypothermia - hyperthermia is the exact opposite, it's overheating of the body.