warm places for the elderly to go to because they are not getting the winter fuel payment

Lilyslass

The loss of the WFA has made a big difference to me and my friends this year. Last night it was Minus 10 in this glen and it has not risen above freezing all day. Local weather bulletins tell us it would have been worse without the snow-laden clouds, and the skies will be clear tonight so it could be down to Minus 20. None of us is eligible for Pension Credit, but just by a few pounds. We manage, but in rural areas, a lot of the help described above is not available. I am not asking anyone for help or advice, just asking fellow Gransnetters to consider, when posting, that not all pensioners (including those of us who worked and paid tax/NI all our lives) are able to access/choose cheap fuel, or to do anything about a limited income. We don’t lack common sense, but it would have made more sense to give the WFA this year and give the plan a year to bed in and for an impact assessment, which surely could have been done in the ten years since the Chancellor first stated her intention to stop it.

I agree with everything you've said Lilyslass

Even here, where it is supposed to be relatively mild, it's 0C, feels like -2C, today and we have had the heating on all day for about a week now because the temperature has rarely risen about 2C.

A phasing in would have been more sensible and kinder too.
We know the price of fuel has dropped but we just knew we would have a very cold winter after that announcement.

I’ve said this before but if people read the history of the WFP right from the beginning in 1997, it’s clear it was only meant to be a temporary allowance for two years while the Labour government of the day tried to encourage more people to claim Income Support. For the first two years, people on Income Support were paid WFP £50 while those not on Income Support received only £20. But take up of Income Support remained poor so the WFP was increased and made universal to at least get some help to the poorest.

From then on in there were always concerns that a universal payment was not targetting those in genuine fuel poverty.

Special concerns regarding those who were off-grid were raised on numerous occasions by the SNP’s Mick Weir (Angus). He wanted the WFP to be paid earlier to those off-grid so they could buy in oil when it was less expensive. Nothing ever came of any of his proposals. The Coalition Government of the day did not want to make universal payments earlier in the year (say July) as they believed people on-grid wouldn't spend the money on fuel. Nor did they have the administrative resources to run a two tier system where people off-grid received the payment earlier.

This debate from 2012:

www.parallelparliament.co.uk/mp/mike-weir/debate/2012-11-27/commons/westminster-hall/winter-fuel-allowances

FlitterMouse

^Before she goes out in the morning she turns the heating off. ^

There’s no evidence that the woman wasn’t about to turn it on again when the neighbour called round apparently soon after the woman got home at 5:00pm. OP posted just after 6:00pm by which time her friend had already reported to her that they had been around to see the neighbour.

I don’t leave my heating on if I am going to be out all day. I worry about the cost of heating just like everybody else (just as this woman does) but that doesn’t mean I can’t afford it. If it’s cold when I get home, I switch it on and by the time I’ve make a cuppa and got myself sorted out, shopping put away or whatever, the house is warming up nicely. I am not knocking those who prefer to leave the heating on all day as a low temperature. It's just how I prefer to do things.

While I applaud the neighbours for their care and concern, we don’t know the whole story and neither do they - whether this woman is in genuine fuel poverty or is just trying to be economical. I imagine that quite a lot of us grew up in cold houses and liked the outdoors. I am used to cold, prefer it to heat and find constantly heated rooms and buildings uncomfortable, sometimes suffocating but I accept that we are all different and that health conditions can necessitate using more domestic energy - but there’s no mention of that here.

I also have what some might regard as an ancient boiler as it’s almost 40 years old but the engineer who services it annually says it works efficiently and there’s no need to change it.

Similar to what Franbern has said, someone living on their own should have income of £218.15 pw. A 20W boiler burning gas all the time - which it won’t be once the thermostat temperature is reached - costs around £1 an hour.

This from Octopus OctoAssist talking about the economy of using electric blankets but mentioning the cost of heating the whole house per day.

One of our boffins realised that some customers were paying to heat their entire homes, even if they lived alone. He did some calculations and found out that where heating a whole home costs around £4 a day, an energy-efficient electric blanket can heat a person for just 2-4p an hour.

So £4 a day, £28 a week which would still leave someone with minimum income £190 a week for everything else. That number accords neatly with my own January bill which covers three weeks of December and one of January. Total gas charges were £110 including standing charge and VAT so just over £25 a week.

At this time my heating bill for December was 55.29 similar homes payed 66.17. I do not switch my heating off, turned right down in spare room as don't want damp invading, another problem of having no heating, itself causing health problems for the elderly. It's on a hive hub, very efficient thermostat. A heated blanket lovely, can't bear a cold home, not what I worked for. The problem is keeping one room warm then having to go into very cold rooms causes problems itself. So I'll carry on, knowing that some can't be as warm as I am, and I am sad. I worked for many years with elderly people, and know too easily how they can succumb to cold, even in their own homes. Through no fault of their own they are left to cold and misery in their own safe place. Help is available, not all are able to access it. Shame on this inhuman Gov. While they sit toasty and warm , wfa all theirs. I call it inhuman.

Lilyslass

The loss of the WFA has made a big difference to me and my friends this year. Last night it was Minus 10 in this glen and it has not risen above freezing all day. Local weather bulletins tell us it would have been worse without the snow-laden clouds, and the skies will be clear tonight so it could be down to Minus 20. None of us is eligible for Pension Credit, but just by a few pounds. We manage, but in rural areas, a lot of the help described above is not available. I am not asking anyone for help or advice, just asking fellow Gransnetters to consider, when posting, that not all pensioners (including those of us who worked and paid tax/NI all our lives) are able to access/choose cheap fuel, or to do anything about a limited income. We don’t lack common sense, but it would have made more sense to give the WFA this year and give the plan a year to bed in and for an impact assessment, which surely could have been done in the ten years since the Chancellor first stated her intention to stop it.

Thankyou for a real view into what some pensioners are having to go through. Also the fact that not all can manage to save a few pennies for emergencies, some live hand to mouth, and are unable to claim due to cut off point.

Bluesmum
Are they eligible for the Energy Company Obligation (ECO) scheme?.
I now know two people who have had these free heating and insulation systems.

Under the Governments ECO4 Scheme, it is estimated that at least 3.5m homes in the UK will now qualify for a boiler replacement or first time central heating system grant regardless of whether you are an Owner, Landlord, Tenant or a Social Housing Occupant.

New boiler installed in 3-5 days from initial contact

The funding comes from all the big six major energy companies who have a Government obligation to reduce their carbon emissions throughout the UK.
You do not need to repay this back.

Here is a link:

www.gov.uk/energy-company-obligation

Or contact your local council to find out if they’re taking part in the Energy Company Obligation (ECO) scheme, or contact an energy supplier directly.

It is easy to apply and can all be done very quickly.

We have a warm hub in our village a 10 min walk away. Trouble is our council is too mean to grit we had thick snow and now it’s thick ice.
No person in their right mind would walk to the warm hub in this weather so there is no point to it at present. Even if the heating is not on in their homes it is safer than risking limbs out in thick snow and ice.

Three pence? Do you mean your weekly income is £218.17?

An income of £218.14 would give someone 1p of Pension Credit to top up to £218.15 opening the gateway to WFP £200, Warm Home Discount £150 plus help with dental and eye care and other bits and pieces.

Make sure you apply to your local council for help from the Household Support Fund. That’s the advice for people who have been left on the cliff-edge by this change. Another £421 million has been made available.

Also check your eligibility for Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. The turn2us calculator is very good. benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/

Means-testing is unfair and divisive.

You are in exactly the category I was talking about, Catterygirl. Means-testing is a cruel way to run things, as there will always be people who miss out for trying to make their lives better.

I’m not entitled to pension credit because I am 3 pence over the limit because I worked for 38 years.

Allira

Norah

Many Churches have warming spaces.

Yes, one of our local ones has and a supermarket provides cakes and pastries.

Churches encourage parishioners to for warm spaces.

We made quite simple biscuits for the warming space this week. Nice project, our great grandchildren measuring and stirring.

Here’s a link to current prices per unit of fuel plus the daily standing charge per fuel. It differs by region.

www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/guides/why-are-energy-rates-different-by-region/

We have something called the energy price cap set by the UK regulator Ofgem. This sets the maximum unit and standing charge rates that can be levied per region. This is reviewed and set every quarter according to wholesale prices and other factors.

As a guide, Ofgem publishes what the annual costs might be for different-sized homes and households. The figure quotes in the media is usually for a 2-3 person household using 2700 kWh of electricty and 11,550 kWh of natural gas.

From 1 January 2025 this cost is £1,738. At the height of the energy crisis following the escalation of Russia’s war on Ukraine, the cap rose to £4.059 but all households were given some help with this. Some help was universal, some was means-tested.

Here’s a link showing how the cap has fluctuated. By summer 2024 it had come down to £1,568.

www.energyhelpline.com/the-history-of-ofgems-energy-price-cap

We can protect ourselves a little by coming off the energy cap and agreeing to a fixed contract, usually for one year. We were strongly urged to take fixed contracts in the autumn of 2024 as a protection against anticipated prices rises from 1 October 2024 and 1 January 2025. We have to be careful with these as some energy suppliers (but not all) levy an exit fee (per fuel) if someone wants to leave a fixed contract before the term is up, say, if charges fall below the fixed contract rate.

MissAdventure

Fair comment about families not realising how dire someone's finances can be, but honestly, if it is just to make sure that they can leave money to adult children, then I'd question someone's ability for self care.

If that is entirely their choice, and they are sound enough mentally to decide, well, then we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions.

It can't chop and change, as and when it suits, and in order to ensure your own children benefit whilst others pay for it.

I couldn't agree more.

What people do with their own money is up to them, and I wouldn't dream of questioning them; but using the WFP to save having to withdraw savings that are destined for an inheritance is not the best use of benefits.

It's interesting that many seem to think that people with enough money for 'the latest phone' or a tattoo shouldn't be allowed to claim benefits, and I have seen comments about how birthday presents should be declared by those on means-tested benefits (so the benefits can be reduced accordingly) yet it is ok to have money meant for someone else to inherit and still get fuel bills paid.

As MissA keeps saying, the WFP amounted to £4 a week, so even if people can't find extra money over the winter, bills are averaged over the whole year when it comes to direct debits, so putting the heating on now can be paid for in the summer when (with luck) we won't need it on at all.

Yes, it would have been better to give advance warning before withdrawing the benefit, and I wonder if all people over, say, 80, should get it, as they are less likely to be able to move around; but means-testing will always leave some people just above the threshold, and those people will complain. I understand why, which is why I hate means-testing. Those missing out on means-tested benefits have usually put themselves in that position by trying to make life more comfortable for themselves - in this case by paying into a small occupational pension - and they have to see those who haven't getting more than they have. It's not fair wherever the threshold is set. It's always 'the squeezed middle' who lose out, as the poor get the benefits and the better off don't notice their loss. Those not in 'the squeezed middle' often can't see that.

My electricity is 98 GBP per year

Per year or per month?

Electricity for 2024 around £1250
Gas for 2024 around £1,150

Forgive me for being a bit shocked at reading this thread, and not understanding the cost of heating in the UK. Is it gas or electricity that is so expensive, and what would the average cost be for an average size house?

We have a rather large house, but live mostly on one floor where it is heated by natural gas furnace. Our cost is equal to 56 GBP. I opted to pay a yearly average, so my bill is the same year round. This gas also heats our hot water, so that is for heat and hot water.

My electricity is 98 GBP per year, which is high, but we heat the other floor with electric. This is also averaged out yearly.

I still work and have a larger house, and even when I retire I will have both government and private pension so consider myself lucky. If I were on a lower income, I would live in a much smaller house or apartment where those costs would likely be halved.

Can someone share an average cost to heat?

No, I get that - but I'm just thinking of how you sometimes read about someone who has died and had lots of money in the bank, while living in the most frugal of circumstances for many years. But putting that to one side, I think there are probably quite a number of families out there where the adult children have no idea just how much their elderly parents are struggling.

Fair comment about families not realising how dire someone's finances can be, but honestly, if it is just to make sure that they can leave money to adult children, then I'd question someone's ability for self care.

If that is entirely their choice, and they are sound enough mentally to decide, well, then we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions.

It can't chop and change, as and when it suits, and in order to ensure your own children benefit whilst others pay for it.

I am 81, and I know somebody half my age who is registered blind and only switches on the heating if she expects friends to visit. The vast majority of people do not know how she really lives, hand to mouth.

MissAdventure

I'm glad my boys wouldn't allow me to live so frugally in otder to leave them an inheritance.

The trouble is that many tend to suffer in silence, so their children or grandchildren may well not know the finer details of their living situation - or financial situation.

No I agree that people's choice to save money to leave something for their children should be criticised, of course I don't, but neither should this decision be used to make a political point.

Before anyone accuses me of being either unaware or unfeeling, I speak as someone who lost their beloved grandmother to a hypothermia induced heart attack.

I certainly don’t think WFA should be used to pass on an inheritance🙄

But the “just a few pounds above” makes an enormous difference to standard living because if the whole raft of extra benefits that come with pension credit. It’s not just the extra money.

Those who are just those few pounds above are really struggling, particularly in rural areas where transport is poor and money saving options like cheap supermarkets and warm places are not available. A bus ride into town can mean a wait of 5hrs or more before a return is possible. Exhausting. A taxi has to be paid for for hospital appointments.

Emergency money is usually there for repairs or needing to replace. If it’s spent on everyday expenses then there’s nothing left for the emergency.

I'm glad my boys wouldn't allow me to live so frugally in otder to leave them an inheritance.

HousePlantQueen

I an sorry Lilyslass. At the risk of being intrusive and/or tactless, does this mean that you and your friends all budgeted for your additional fuel costs in Dec to March to be covered solely by WFA? I hope nobody is saving their money in the bank to leave an inheritance, rather than taking what is seriously only about an additional £3-4 per day to keep warm.

Oh dear. Many people live frugally in the hope of passing a small inheritance on to their children. I absolutely understand that and identify with it. Loving parents sacrifice much for their children. Their choice is not for others to criticise.

Should everyone on benefits be able to keep savings, I suppose, is the question?

I have just looked at my Octopus App. In this cold snap, we are spending just under £10 more per week for gas heating than we were in the milder autumn.

HousePlantQueen, someone receiving the old SP (maybe not even the full SP) and a very small occupational or private pension (just enough to deny them pension credit) is probably living pretty much hand-to-mouth with very little, if any, savings. You say you know there are some with no savings. I can’t imagine being in such a dire situation but many are, because of the cards life has dealt them. Should those with just a little savings use those savings to keep warm regardless of what emergency may lie around the corner? Keeping warm should not be an emergency. There is every reason for those forced to choose between heating and eating to panic.