warm places for the elderly to go to because they are not getting the winter fuel payment

I was incensed with this, I don’t qualify for it as not a pensioner but Mum was very upset.I worked lots of extra shifts to give her the money as I knew she wouldn’t be keeping herself warm enough.

Well done Oreo

We used to worry about MIL years ago, then a Labour government too; her house was usually freezing and we did give her money towards her gas bill although we were hard pushed to do that.
She always voted Tory as she didn't trust Labour because she said their motto was "Do as I say and not as I do".

I don't think any of them did her any real favours actually.

I really don’t think that well off politicians or even some well off GNers realise how poorer elderly people worry about heating bills Allira.Ones who don’t quite fit the criteria for pension credit or anything else, and can’t move around sufficiently to keep themselves warm enough.

It's moving around, isn't it.

I can't move around like I used to. However, yesterday I was doing housework, the CH was on and I felt much too warm. DH was sitting filling in forms and said the temperature was just right.

My father is 92 lives in a 3 bedroom semi detached house - has enough money to heat the heat 24/7 at sweltering levels and refuses to put the heating on at an adequate temperature for more than a couple of hours a day- MADNESS- he won’t be told- when we go to visit we layer up!!!

Heat the house it should be!

I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have always been a belt and braces kind of person, and had gas and electric and a bottled gas heater in case there was any problems. However when I moved , looking for a ground floor flat, there was absolutely NO option but to have an electric only heated flat. Without exception , not one place had both, and I resented the fact that you were basically talked down to , where it was said to be unsafe as you might leave the gas on etc. As I have managed to heat my homes and been in a boat and lived abroad and come to no harm, think they have a cheek to patronise you , as the implication is that clearly at my age I cant be trusted to be safe!! So begrudgingly after trying my best to find somewhere with options I have moved here to my electric only flat. So if the price of electric goes up your options are to pay more or do without heating etc.
The winter fuel payment was very important to me, but as I dont get pension credits I now have lost that. I have always tried to exercise and walk etc, but now with cancer and a bad back I often have days when to even move around the flat is painful. I cannot move quickly so too cold to go out for a walk anyway even if I could move quicker. Trying to keep warm without the heating on is now altering the way I spend my day. My attitude has always been to get the jobs done in the morning, when I have hopefully a bit more energy , so would o shopping, use the disabled buggy in the shop and then come home, come in and sit down for a bit then go out for the shopping and bring it in and put it all away and then do whatever I planned to do for the rest of the day. Not now. I get ready to go shopping. do about half of the shopping with no frozen things, then either go to a warm space run by a church group for a little while, or go to a cafe where a small coffee allows me to sit in the warm, read the paper etc and get warmed up. Then go on to get the rest of the shopping. then go home. I go and play whist in a local village hall one evening a week, good evening , nice people and not heating my flat. Another womens group have a meeting once a week, with often very interesting speakers, I go most weeks now, because it is somewhere warm. If I am not interested in the talk, I can go and sit in another area and read my book. There is lots to do at home and I would like to make my choice of the day by what needs to be done or what I want to do. However now, despite paying for it and looking after it myself it seems as though I cannot afford to stay at home in the winter!! As for putting all the blame on Starmer, some people have very short memories of the appalling tory mess that came before. For women anyway we have already been cheated WASPI women, and because often our lives are mixed with caring for children etc so we rarely have a full pension to start with. Well at the moment in this freezing cold morning I am not too cold as on top of the dressing gown I have my bargain of the year. A white padded gilet bought from a charity shop. It nearly reaches the ground and is sleeveess but with a hood, so your arms are free to work with things but it really keeps me quite warm and the extravagent £5 I paid for it will soon be paid for.So hard luck male politicians of all kinds. You think that now I am in the eat or heat mode, that I will either slowly starve to death or die of cold. Well one of the great warmers in my life is the fury and volcanic anger I feel, and the bloody mindedness that I intend to annoy you all by living until I am 103 and the longer I breathe the more I will cost, because even a pittance of a pension is better than my dying and you being able to cross one more person off the pension list!! Throughout my life I have done voluntary work as well from the childrens playgroup to doing 3 days a week hospital car volunteer. So \I have already started my campaign, and want all women to joing me in the combination of the general strike and the suffragettes . So we do not want to let our customers down, but I want all women to join me on a one day strike, where we do not of the things that we normally do but go outside with placards showing the jobs we do. so that all the town centres and spaces will be filled with women holding up the lists of things that we would be doing on that day. So just think of it, there will be no meals on wheels, library home service, playgroups, church coffee mornings, gardens done, driving people to appointments etc etc.They try to put down what we do and make it look as though it is vey little compared to what they do. Well when there is no tea and home made cakes, no lollipop lady , church halls all closed as nothing ready to be used, etc. if we choose a summer day we could all just sit down in the street holding our placards and say nothing at all, just raise our placard and point it at someone. Whose going to join me?

Oreo

Allira

Well, I'm sorry, but posters should be allowed to voice their concerns about something a government may do without being accused of using it as a convenient stick with which to beat the government, and nothing is going to wrench that stick from the hands of those who don't like them

It puts posters into a slot where they may not necessarily belong.

It certainly does!
I also voted for Labour, had been waiting a long time for it and what do we get? Six months of dire decisions that’s what!
Starting with the withdrawal of the WFA a jaw dropping decision with Winter on the horizon and not even being means tested properly, I was incensed with this, I don’t qualify for it as not a pensioner but Mum was very upset.I worked lots of extra shifts to give her the money as I knew she wouldn’t be keeping herself warm enough.
It is not a case of a convenient stick at all, it’s a very inconvenient stick🤬

The changes to WFP were announced in July, still summer, autumn to come before we get to winter. We had a warm summer, a warmer than normal autumn and the start of winter was mild. If you pay 12 equal payments for fuel, I think most people do now, then a fair bit of credit will have built up. I fixed my fuel deal back in June or July so my bills aren't bad.

People could plan, maybe not ideal to lose the money but months to plan and the weather was with us.

It's clear that on this thread and the many others relating to the cost of keeping warm there are people who can afford to pay for their heating.

At the other end of the spectrum there is the pension credit and all additional benefits. And there are lots and lots who are struggling with energy costs with no help whatsoever.

Millie22

It's clear that on this thread and the many others relating to the cost of keeping warm there are people who can afford to pay for their heating.

At the other end of the spectrum there is the pension credit and all additional benefits. And there are lots and lots who are struggling with energy costs with no help whatsoever.

Yes.

And they are the ones we should be concerned about.

Agreed. But how can that be done without there being a cliff edge? Taxing the benefit would have same impact, I think. Basically that would just claw back the money from those just above the tax threshold.

theworriedwell

Oreo

Allira

Well, I'm sorry, but posters should be allowed to voice their concerns about something a government may do without being accused of using it as a convenient stick with which to beat the government, and nothing is going to wrench that stick from the hands of those who don't like them

It puts posters into a slot where they may not necessarily belong.

It certainly does!
I also voted for Labour, had been waiting a long time for it and what do we get? Six months of dire decisions that’s what!
Starting with the withdrawal of the WFA a jaw dropping decision with Winter on the horizon and not even being means tested properly, I was incensed with this, I don’t qualify for it as not a pensioner but Mum was very upset.I worked lots of extra shifts to give her the money as I knew she wouldn’t be keeping herself warm enough.
It is not a case of a convenient stick at all, it’s a very inconvenient stick🤬

The changes to WFP were announced in July, still summer, autumn to come before we get to winter. We had a warm summer, a warmer than normal autumn and the start of winter was mild. If you pay 12 equal payments for fuel, I think most people do now, then a fair bit of credit will have built up. I fixed my fuel deal back in June or July so my bills aren't bad.

People could plan, maybe not ideal to lose the money but months to plan and the weather was with us.

I disagree and so do many others.
The timing was abysmal and not thought through at all.
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/comment/rachel-reeves-winter-fuel-allowance

Oreo

I really don’t think that well off politicians or even some well off GNers realise how poorer elderly people worry about heating bills Allira.Ones who don’t quite fit the criteria for pension credit or anything else, and can’t move around sufficiently to keep themselves warm enough.

I think unfortunately that the government are relying on kindhearted, responsible family members like yourself Oreo to step up and to support older family members.. Your mum is lucky to have such a loving daughter but it shouldn't be necessary..

Where are all the old values in Labour of supporting the disadvantaged in society.. It is not the sort of Government I was hoping for..

Allira

theworriedwell

Oreo

Allira

Well, I'm sorry, but posters should be allowed to voice their concerns about something a government may do without being accused of using it as a convenient stick with which to beat the government, and nothing is going to wrench that stick from the hands of those who don't like them

It puts posters into a slot where they may not necessarily belong.

It certainly does!
I also voted for Labour, had been waiting a long time for it and what do we get? Six months of dire decisions that’s what!
Starting with the withdrawal of the WFA a jaw dropping decision with Winter on the horizon and not even being means tested properly, I was incensed with this, I don’t qualify for it as not a pensioner but Mum was very upset.I worked lots of extra shifts to give her the money as I knew she wouldn’t be keeping herself warm enough.
It is not a case of a convenient stick at all, it’s a very inconvenient stick🤬

The changes to WFP were announced in July, still summer, autumn to come before we get to winter. We had a warm summer, a warmer than normal autumn and the start of winter was mild. If you pay 12 equal payments for fuel, I think most people do now, then a fair bit of credit will have built up. I fixed my fuel deal back in June or July so my bills aren't bad.

People could plan, maybe not ideal to lose the money but months to plan and the weather was with us.

I disagree and so do many others.
The timing was abysmal and not thought through at all.
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/comment/rachel-reeves-winter-fuel-allowance

What do you disagree with? It is a fact it was announced in July, it is a fact we had a warm autumn and start to winter when credit could mount up. Well you can disagree away but they are facts.

It is a fact it was announced in July,
I don't disagree that it was announced in July, how could I? That is true

it is a fact we had a warm autumn and start to winter when credit could mount up
Perhaps we did have a warm autumn.

I disagree that everyone wants to pay their bills in that way to give the fuel companies a credit. Some do, many don't.

That is beside the point anyway because the fact remains that people were expecting assistance with their winter fuel bill which was stopped without giving them sufficient time to adjust.

Yes, I'll disagree away if I wish, thank you for the permission though.

Doodledog

Agreed. But how can that be done without there being a cliff edge? Taxing the benefit would have same impact, I think. Basically that would just claw back the money from those just above the tax threshold.

You're right. It would need a reintroduction of the tax age allowance that Osborne abolished to prevent that. And it wouldn't be popular giving all older people a tax break.

Every which way you look at this, any attempt as trying to make it work adds another lot of complications - which explains why various bodies have been discussing it for two decades and then left it as it was.

As I have banged on about elsewhere, there are billions of excess funds sloshing round in the National Insurance Fund for reasons nobody can explain to me - at 31 March 2024, 86.4 billion when only 21.8 was required. It's going up every year. Yes, NIF is ring-fenced to pay for contributory benefits but the Government could easily redesignate WFP as that and pay it from the fund just as it does the Christmas Bonus.

I can't imagine there are many pensioners now who have never paid NIC and therefore into the fund. I'd view it as compensation for the low rate of the SP compared to other countries and compensation for those (like me) who paid in far more years that the 35 needed for a full pension.

Universal WFP costs just 2 billion a year. It's peanuts in the great scheme things.

It wouldn't be a great loss of face for Reeves to say we've done our best to drive up Pension Credit but acknowledge that the people on the cliff edge of PC are suffering and the cheapest way to do stop would be to reverse the decision.

And considering the DWP say that 2 billion in PC goes unclaimed each year, where is that? This upswing in claims isn't going to cost anywher near that by 31 March 2025 as nowhere near the 880,000 additional households said to be eligible are claiming. Why couldn't the unclaimed PC be used to fill the mythical black hole?

As I have banged on about elsewhere, there are billions of excess funds sloshing round in the National Insurance Fund for reasons nobody can explain to me - at 31 March 2024, 86.4 billion when only 21.8 was required. It's going up every year. Yes, NIF is ring-fenced to pay for contributory benefits but the Government could easily redesignate WFP as that and pay it from the fund just as it does the Christmas Bonus.
😯
So there is a fund?
How does this work?

Allira

It is a fact it was announced in July,
I don't disagree that it was announced in July, how could I? That is true

it is a fact we had a warm autumn and start to winter when credit could mount up
Perhaps we did have a warm autumn.

I disagree that everyone wants to pay their bills in that way to give the fuel companies a credit. Some do, many don't.

That is beside the point anyway because the fact remains that people were expecting assistance with their winter fuel bill which was stopped without giving them sufficient time to adjust.

Yes, I'll disagree away if I wish, thank you for the permission though.

Well good job I didn't say everyone wants to pay their bills in that way, the fact remains whether you are putting money aside for your bills or doing a 12 month DD people had months to prepare and a warmer than average autumn and December.

As I said fine to disagree with facts but it does seem a bit odd. The earth isn't flat, the moon isn't made of cheese. Hope that helps.

😁

The earth isn't flat
I met a woman who would argue that point with you
She tried to convince me and DH.

Allira

😁

The earth isn't flat
I met a woman who would argue that point with you
She tried to convince me and DH.

I'm assuming you didn't fall for it. I can sort of understand clinging to that belief before the age of rockets when we see pictures/videos of the earth in all its glory. I suppose they say those are fakes. The thing that does impress me is how accurate old depictions of earth were when they didn't have those advantages. I don't know how they worked it out. I'd never have figured it out.

theworriedwell

Allira

It is a fact it was announced in July,
I don't disagree that it was announced in July, how could I? That is true

it is a fact we had a warm autumn and start to winter when credit could mount up
Perhaps we did have a warm autumn.

I disagree that everyone wants to pay their bills in that way to give the fuel companies a credit. Some do, many don't.

That is beside the point anyway because the fact remains that people were expecting assistance with their winter fuel bill which was stopped without giving them sufficient time to adjust.

Yes, I'll disagree away if I wish, thank you for the permission though.

Well good job I didn't say everyone wants to pay their bills in that way, the fact remains whether you are putting money aside for your bills or doing a 12 month DD people had months to prepare and a warmer than average autumn and December.

As I said fine to disagree with facts but it does seem a bit odd. The earth isn't flat, the moon isn't made of cheese. Hope that helps.

Where is empathy and understanding? There are many elderly pensioners like my Mum who due to circumstances have very little coming in, just the state pension and a very small private pension and no discernible savings.Food and the utilities and clothes quite expensive.Earning just somewhat above the criteria for government help in any way.Very hard to plan ahead but if a year had been allowed that would have helped.
Four months, no chance.Even a milder than average Autumn has colder nights and it’s harder to keep warm when you sit on a sofa in the evenings.Older people find it harder, that’s a fact too.
The cut off point was just too low and is causing hardship to many, another fact.

This is the latest.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-insurance-fund-accounts/great-britain-national-insurance-fund-account-for-the-year-ended-31-march-2024

Just Google to see earlier years. HMRC collect all the NIC paid and the Accounting Officer makes a report each year.

Some NIC goes to fund the NHS but the numbers in this report are net of the NHS allocation.

Around 95% of what is paid out is the State Pension. The rest is other contributory benefits like maternity and bereavement benefits and the contributory elements of JSA and ESA.

The fund must keep a credit balance of at least 1/6 of projected expenditure but is keeping far, far more than that. The excess is increasing each year and I don't know why.

Previous numbers in the graphic for comparison.

The fund is reviewed every five years - the next review is due this year.

madeleine45

I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have always been a belt and braces kind of person, and had gas and electric and a bottled gas heater in case there was any problems. However when I moved , looking for a ground floor flat, there was absolutely NO option but to have an electric only heated flat. Without exception , not one place had both, and I resented the fact that you were basically talked down to , where it was said to be unsafe as you might leave the gas on etc. As I have managed to heat my homes and been in a boat and lived abroad and come to no harm, think they have a cheek to patronise you , as the implication is that clearly at my age I cant be trusted to be safe!! So begrudgingly after trying my best to find somewhere with options I have moved here to my electric only flat. So if the price of electric goes up your options are to pay more or do without heating etc.
The winter fuel payment was very important to me, but as I dont get pension credits I now have lost that. I have always tried to exercise and walk etc, but now with cancer and a bad back I often have days when to even move around the flat is painful. I cannot move quickly so too cold to go out for a walk anyway even if I could move quicker. Trying to keep warm without the heating on is now altering the way I spend my day. My attitude has always been to get the jobs done in the morning, when I have hopefully a bit more energy , so would o shopping, use the disabled buggy in the shop and then come home, come in and sit down for a bit then go out for the shopping and bring it in and put it all away and then do whatever I planned to do for the rest of the day. Not now. I get ready to go shopping. do about half of the shopping with no frozen things, then either go to a warm space run by a church group for a little while, or go to a cafe where a small coffee allows me to sit in the warm, read the paper etc and get warmed up. Then go on to get the rest of the shopping. then go home. I go and play whist in a local village hall one evening a week, good evening , nice people and not heating my flat. Another womens group have a meeting once a week, with often very interesting speakers, I go most weeks now, because it is somewhere warm. If I am not interested in the talk, I can go and sit in another area and read my book. There is lots to do at home and I would like to make my choice of the day by what needs to be done or what I want to do. However now, despite paying for it and looking after it myself it seems as though I cannot afford to stay at home in the winter!! As for putting all the blame on Starmer, some people have very short memories of the appalling tory mess that came before. For women anyway we have already been cheated WASPI women, and because often our lives are mixed with caring for children etc so we rarely have a full pension to start with. Well at the moment in this freezing cold morning I am not too cold as on top of the dressing gown I have my bargain of the year. A white padded gilet bought from a charity shop. It nearly reaches the ground and is sleeveess but with a hood, so your arms are free to work with things but it really keeps me quite warm and the extravagent £5 I paid for it will soon be paid for.So hard luck male politicians of all kinds. You think that now I am in the eat or heat mode, that I will either slowly starve to death or die of cold. Well one of the great warmers in my life is the fury and volcanic anger I feel, and the bloody mindedness that I intend to annoy you all by living until I am 103 and the longer I breathe the more I will cost, because even a pittance of a pension is better than my dying and you being able to cross one more person off the pension list!! Throughout my life I have done voluntary work as well from the childrens playgroup to doing 3 days a week hospital car volunteer. So \I have already started my campaign, and want all women to joing me in the combination of the general strike and the suffragettes . So we do not want to let our customers down, but I want all women to join me on a one day strike, where we do not of the things that we normally do but go outside with placards showing the jobs we do. so that all the town centres and spaces will be filled with women holding up the lists of things that we would be doing on that day. So just think of it, there will be no meals on wheels, library home service, playgroups, church coffee mornings, gardens done, driving people to appointments etc etc.They try to put down what we do and make it look as though it is vey little compared to what they do. Well when there is no tea and home made cakes, no lollipop lady , church halls all closed as nothing ready to be used, etc. if we choose a summer day we could all just sit down in the street holding our placards and say nothing at all, just raise our placard and point it at someone. Whose going to join me?

I would love to read what you have to say, Madeliene but I can’t.
Would it be possible to put some paragraphs in, pretty please 😊

theworriedwell

Allira

😁

The earth isn't flat
I met a woman who would argue that point with you
She tried to convince me and DH.

I'm assuming you didn't fall for it. I can sort of understand clinging to that belief before the age of rockets when we see pictures/videos of the earth in all its glory. I suppose they say those are fakes. The thing that does impress me is how accurate old depictions of earth were when they didn't have those advantages. I don't know how they worked it out. I'd never have figured it out.

I'm assuming you didn't fall for it.
😂

When we asked her why the oceans didn't pour over the edges she assured us that the mountains stopped that from happening.

Allira

When we asked her why the oceans didn't pour over the edges she assured us that the mountains stopped that from happening.

Oh that's lovely. I'm so glad all the water doesn't go over the edge. I say that having had a flood in the kitchen this afternoon where a waste pipe came apart, I opened the door of the cupboard under the sink and was greeted by the water pouring over the edges. Where are the mountains when you need them?