warm places for the elderly to go to because they are not getting the winter fuel payment

Oreo

theworriedwell

Allira

It is a fact it was announced in July,
I don't disagree that it was announced in July, how could I? That is true

it is a fact we had a warm autumn and start to winter when credit could mount up
Perhaps we did have a warm autumn.

I disagree that everyone wants to pay their bills in that way to give the fuel companies a credit. Some do, many don't.

That is beside the point anyway because the fact remains that people were expecting assistance with their winter fuel bill which was stopped without giving them sufficient time to adjust.

Yes, I'll disagree away if I wish, thank you for the permission though.

Well good job I didn't say everyone wants to pay their bills in that way, the fact remains whether you are putting money aside for your bills or doing a 12 month DD people had months to prepare and a warmer than average autumn and December.

As I said fine to disagree with facts but it does seem a bit odd. The earth isn't flat, the moon isn't made of cheese. Hope that helps.

Where is empathy and understanding? There are many elderly pensioners like my Mum who due to circumstances have very little coming in, just the state pension and a very small private pension and no discernible savings.Food and the utilities and clothes quite expensive.Earning just somewhat above the criteria for government help in any way.Very hard to plan ahead but if a year had been allowed that would have helped.
Four months, no chance.Even a milder than average Autumn has colder nights and it’s harder to keep warm when you sit on a sofa in the evenings.Older people find it harder, that’s a fact too.
The cut off point was just too low and is causing hardship to many, another fact.

That's why I like paying by 12 equal payments over the year. Since July we've built up some credit, partly due to summer and partly due to a warmer than average autumn and start to winter. If we go into the red this month or next it will even out over the spring and summer.

Maybe she could look at that as it would take the pressure off the winter months. We even had some money back before Christmas as Octopus said our credit was building up. We do normally have quite high bills as DH is nearly 80 and disabled so he feels the cold.

theworriedwell

Allira

When we asked her why the oceans didn't pour over the edges she assured us that the mountains stopped that from happening.

Oh that's lovely. I'm so glad all the water doesn't go over the edge. I say that having had a flood in the kitchen this afternoon where a waste pipe came apart, I opened the door of the cupboard under the sink and was greeted by the water pouring over the edges. Where are the mountains when you need them?

😂

I must say she made it sound very plausible, I was glad we didn't have very young grandchildren with us.

Oh dear! Sorry about the flood, hope you could find an emergency plumber.

Thanks Allira, it was OK as I could rejoin the pipes and fix the join. I have got a great plumber so I will get him out to have a look, he's due to come and service the boiler anyway.

My cupboard under the sink is tidier than it has been in a long time and the floor has been cleaned by me on my knees so it is sparkling. Early spring clean.

It's an ill wind!

I know people who are not short of money but won't spend it on heating. One couple had a huge extension on their hone last year but live in one small room to save having heating on.

To those who can't afford any heating, I would try to keep one room warm in the very cold spells, use hot water bottles, heated throw, oil filled rad. It's heartbreaking to think of the elderly after working all their lives, not only on their own but cold.. I budget each month even in a heatwave for my yearly getting bill letting credit mount up. In these temperatures check on any family and ensure they are warm.

We all have our priorities but for me a roof over my head, food in my belly and a reasonable level of heating are probably my top 3 although I must confess at the moment I'm desperate to see a dentist as I've broken a tooth and it is painful. I'm having to go private as I can't get a NHS dentist and even so I've had to wait over a week and all I can think is, "roll on Wednesday" I've never longed to see a dentist so much.

theworriedwell

Allira

When we asked her why the oceans didn't pour over the edges she assured us that the mountains stopped that from happening.

Oh that's lovely. I'm so glad all the water doesn't go over the edge. I say that having had a flood in the kitchen this afternoon where a waste pipe came apart, I opened the door of the cupboard under the sink and was greeted by the water pouring over the edges. Where are the mountains when you need them?

Oh horrible Worriedwell but very amusing response to Allira's funny post..

I wasn't laughing when all the dirty water washed over my new slippers. They now stink so I think the bin it is. It is good to keep a sense of humour even if it does take a little while to kick in.

theworriedwell

I wasn't laughing when all the dirty water washed over my new slippers. They now stink so I think the bin it is. It is good to keep a sense of humour even if it does take a little while to kick in.

Will they wash?
In the washing machine in a net bag, not too hot a wash. Might be worth a try.

Thanks, I might give it a try. I'm going away tomorrow so trying to organise that, not straightforward as DH is disabled so I have GS coming to "keep him company" ie make sure he eats and takes his tablets. In all honesty I have to be realistic, if I need more slippers it isn't the end of the world.

I'm looking forward to a bit of quiet time and recharging my batteries and you all won't have to put up with me for a while.

Have a restful time.

MissAdventure

How about a sliding scale on the fuel payment?

A bit like the bedroom tax, and that wasn't exactly welcomed.

Absolutely agree with you re: a sliding scale. That would avoid the cut-off point where being 50p over the limit for Pension Credit means no WFP. Why can't WFP be added to the State Pension and then, when added to any other income, may or may not be subject to Income Tax. That way those at the lower end of income would get the full WFP and those with £££££s (e.g. the proverbial millionaire living in a mansion) would get nothing.

It would still mean that someone on the cusp of the income tax threshold would find that the extra money would push them into paying tax, and they would lose 20% of the WFA at a stroke. That's obviously better than losing it all, but the principle whereby someone paying into a small pension is penalised for doing so still stands.

Those with large pensions (or other wealth) will, as ever, be ok, and those who haven't paid any extra will get the money. It's the 'just about managing' who lose out every time. As the current new SP is just below the tax threshold (and will get closer with the triple lock) it will only take a small extra pension to push people into paying tax. What was the point of the sacrifices they may have made to do so if it is clawed back until they are no better off than if they hadn't bothered? Also, what if one member of a couple pays tax and the other doesn't? Wouldn't it be very complicated to amalgamate tax codes, as well as being a huge invasion of privacy for couples who do not share financial information.

It would be much better, IMO, if fuel prices were lowered for everyone of all ages.

why on earth don't they re-instate it.. Then the wealthy can still continue to give to charities and Labour would look as if they actually care.. it's not even the case that they are saving a huge amount of money with this punitive measure...

Any implementation of a sliding scale would cost
too much..

My sliding scale would be much simpler.

Me - 2 people living in two bedroom accommodation - full amount of fuel allowance.

Mr and Mrs Bloggs - 2 people living in a four bedroom home - they are allowed fuel allowance equivalent for a one bedroom property, because that is what they need. (Regardless of their age!)

No idea if it could work, but as has been said, it would be far better to sort out the utility company charges.

My husband is disabled so we need two bedrooms or I get no sleep. Being a carer is hard enough without anyone deciding we only need one bedroom. I imagine the admin working that one out would be complicated, would the DWP come round and try it?

Yes, the problems would be with all the genuine exceptions to "the rules".
Any system is going to have exceptions, people who aren't so easy to pigeonhole into one/two rooms, and so on.

Better scrap my idea completely, I think.
Back to the drawing board.

At present our very government is giving gerous amounts of money to the utility companies. (WFA, etc)
Their CEO's and share holders are really laughing all the way to the banks.
Whereas, other countries like France dealt with the high rise in costs of electricity ,during covid, by putting a low limit on what utility companies were permitted to charge, this country just gave some poorer people a small amount towards those charges.
Nationalisation (with little or no compensation) of electrical, water, gas companies plus tying the State Pension to the Living Wage and no concerns about thresholds then

theworriedwell

My husband is disabled so we need two bedrooms or I get no sleep. Being a carer is hard enough without anyone deciding we only need one bedroom. I imagine the admin working that one out would be complicated, would the DWP come round and try it?

Yes, that plan has shades of the bedroom tax.

I often sleep in a spare room because of my husband's snoring. I don't use more fuel than if I stayed sleepless next to him.

And can't grandparents have grandchildren to stay without losing the allowance?

pascal30

why on earth don't they re-instate it.. Then the wealthy can still continue to give to charities and Labour would look as if they actually care.. it's not even the case that they are saving a huge amount of money with this punitive measure...

Any implementation of a sliding scale would cost
too much..

We really can't run an insurance system on the basis that those who don't meet the criteria are expected to give the benefit to charity.

Franbern

At present our very government is giving gerous amounts of money to the utility companies. (WFA, etc)
Their CEO's and share holders are really laughing all the way to the banks.
Whereas, other countries like France dealt with the high rise in costs of electricity ,during covid, by putting a low limit on what utility companies were permitted to charge, this country just gave some poorer people a small amount towards those charges.
Nationalisation (with little or no compensation) of electrical, water, gas companies plus tying the State Pension to the Living Wage and no concerns about thresholds then

Completely agree

MissAdventure

My sliding scale would be much simpler.

Me - 2 people living in two bedroom accommodation - full amount of fuel allowance.

Mr and Mrs Bloggs - 2 people living in a four bedroom home - they are allowed fuel allowance equivalent for a one bedroom property, because that is what they need. (Regardless of their age!)

No idea if it could work, but as has been said, it would be far better to sort out the utility company charges.

If I have a cough or cold (or Covid) I sleep in another bedroom.
If DH has a cough or cold I sleep in the other bedroom.

The radiators have thermostats.

How do you propose to nationalise the electric, gas and water companies with little or no compensation?

I think they've made enough in dividends and handsome payouts over far too long.